Zephyr Net

I have been combing the internet for info on this plane. <b>I know it is only a concept right now, but...</b>

Well, I don't know but... but, If anyone has any info at all, it would be appreciated muchly.

The J-13 designation is for the SU-30MKKs that China has received from Russia...

I dont think there is anything public on the J-12 designation...

What's the deal with the J-10? Enter service yet and does it have a NATO reporting name?

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Centurian

The J-10 is in the process of entering service now.

Check out www.sinodefence.com for more info (they even have a chart of all the paint schemes for the different branches of service).

http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/aircraft/fighter/j10paint.asp

I really like the J-10. Although it is a foreign design (thank God it's not French), it reminds me of my beloved F-16, and will undoubtedly last logner in service than the aging Falcon.

Also, can you believe the J-10 has 11 hardpoints. For such a tiny jet, it can carry a payload.

The Eurofighter has 13. 4 on the fuselage and one on the centerline. Then 6 on the wings. That's not a lot at all. The F-16XL Cranked Arrow featured what over twelve?

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Centurian

Yeah... but the J-10 is a single engined fighter and is teeny.

It's a cross between the Lavi and the Typhoon. China = Original no.

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Centurian

Those graphics on the Sinodefense page are over a year and 1/2 old... The J-10 has not yet entered service, which is why it does not yet have a NATO designation.

Once it officially enters squadron service it will gain its name...







The J-10 is simply this... the body of the Lavi/F-16 grafted onto the nose of an SU-27... The canard design is a cross between the Typhoon and again the Lavi...

It looks to be a very competitent day fighter, but has (in images so far released) a very limited offensive carriage, indicitating that the engine used is not of high enough thrust to push the airframe to its performance limits(this is an ongoing problem for the Chinese with all their aircraft)...

And considering that this aircraft is based on an F-16A, whcih first flew 30 years ago, you have to ask what does this aircraft really do for the Chinese? Besides keeping them 30 years behind the west in aircraft development...

CAG out...

Based on the F-16A? The J-10 has more in common with the MiG-33 design, as Mikoyan assisted China on this aircraft. Visual similarities to the F-16 or Lavi mean little. The engine is not Chinese, it is the 27,000 lb thrust Lyulka Saturn AL-31F turbofan of the Flanker, providing roughly equivalent thrust as the F-16 to an aircraft that, granted appears heavier. Day fighter? I trust the Israelis or the Russians have night capable radars, as they'll be providing the radar for this aircraft, which has a NATO designation, I don't know it off hand however.

Zephyr

I agree that the J-10 isn't original, but I still like it. Most of the J-12 concept drawings look like... guess what... a ripped off FA-22 (loosely).

Back to the J-10... It isn't exactly like the Lavi, but it's really close. The first J-10 design was basically exactly like the Lavi. There are minor structural differences in the latest version. Like CAG said, it looks like the Lavi (albeit extended a little) with an Su-27's nose and Eurofighter canards. However, I remember reading somewhere that Israel had supposedly given China information from the Lavi prototypes.

[url]http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/aircraft/fighter/j10paint.asp
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http://avial.narod.ru/SCHEMES/Lavi.GIF
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I didn't mean to mislead you by saying the J-10 has the most hardpoints ever, because it doesn't. When I found out the amount though, I was slightly surprised, because I hadn't thought of it as a very large aircraft, and it's not (no official dimensions released, but use some common sense and compare sizes in pictures.)

Also, IAI reported that the Lavi outperformed F-16 in nearly all areas (even though they eventually cancelled it). Last time I checked,that was a good thing for a new aircraft to outperform an older one.

Also, The J-10 will enter service next year... I was a little off when I said in the process of entering service.

The only thing I can guarantee is that either the blue camo J-10 prototypes have either been repainted in some of the official PLAAF colors (check out sinodefence.com), or that the Chinese have started producing the J-10 in limited quantities. I suspect that the latter is true, since I have seen a picture at Jane's of 4 or more J-10s on the same flight line 9sinodefence has the paint shceme chart if you want to know which colors are the official PLAAF colors, etc.).

I think we are a little off on the point here though. This topic is about the J-12/ J-XX/ XXJ/ J-13, or whatever it is called. I just want anything anyone has on it, which obviously isn't much. I however, favor the design that looks like FA's X-32 ASTOVL. I think it looks better and it is more distinct than the FA-22. My opinion however, doesn't affect aerodynamics and performance, so we'll just have to wait a few years and see what turns up.

All I have found so far are blurry pictures of models, concept diagrams, and small mock-ups

The Paks shipped an entire F-16A directly to the Chinese who used it, with Israeli assistence, to reverse engineer it. They, then, used their existing Russian technology from their J-11/SU-27 manufacturing facility to adapt Flanker technology to fill the gaps that they, themselves, could not overcome. This is typically Chinese, no nonsense procedure. No use designing something if you already have access to a practical solution.

Also , if it was based more on MiG technology, then why does it so heavily resemble an F-16/Lavi with Flanker technology also apparent in the design? To claim its simply coincidental is ludricous...

CAG out...

I don't dispute that the Israelis probably (or confirmed?) sent some tech/Lavi designs to China, and also the Pakistani F-16 transfer. But the word is that in the later stages the Russians were involved with the J-10 project. It looks almost exactly like the Mikoyan MiG-33 concept (designation used twice, not the MiG-29M one). I'm currently having trouble finding pics of it.

Zephyr

It looks to have a resemblence to the 1.42/1.44 nose design... or atleast the concept of it...

But the entire blended body concept comes from the F-16. Are there any figures on its RCS(probably not)...

BTW have you even seen a picture of the Lavi? Its 90% dead on to the J-10, especially if you see a single seat version instead of the 2 seat version. How can you claim this to be a development by MiG?

The Israelis transferred the technology to the Chinese throughout the 1980s and 1990s...

Also the reason I referred to it as a 'day fighter' is that it has not been shown carrying anything more lethal then an IR missile... At least it is that way in is in the pics I have seen...

The F-16A (and yes even with its radar) was referred to as a day fighter until its use of radar guided missiles...

CAG out...

It was confirmed that the Israeli's sold Lavi parts to China via UAE or Iran, I can't remember which.

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Centurian

You know, the more I look at this bird, the more I an convinced I can build one for FAF with my new shape editing skills.. Dont know if it is worth it to build it from the F-16... perhaps all I need to do is make the appropiate alterations to the F-31 model.. enlarge the canards, widen the nose and lengthen the wings...

Get rid of the vector paddles...

and alter the way the shape uses the skin file to create a new detailed skin, panel by panel, like on the F-4 or the F-104...

It could be done...