Zephyr Net

F/A-18C

One nutty Pilot long ago, broke all the rules and buzzed a crowd of thousands of screaming Africans with AKs, with 32 Marines walking one of Clintons "no-bullets" patrols, and probably saved em all that day.
not me personally, but buds' of mine

F/A-18C = ANGEL .... blue or not

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"cool beanz"
D. "FETCH" Jordan

I still love the F-86 Saberjet... Nothing else has been quite the dogfighter since her time over Korea, nor has had such an impact on an airbattle...

The original 'MiG Killer!'...

No plane kills MiGs like the F-15

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allah no longer exists, for I have killed him. You must worship me instead.

Man I love the Sabers, the D SaberDog was one crazy lil jet.

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August 2nd 2003
The 110th Anniversary of Yugolsaivan Aviation!
St. Elias the gardian of the Fighter pilot.

That thing can't touch the F-15, there's not much that can. Certianly nothing made in Russia.

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allah no longer exists, for I have killed him. You must worship me instead.

I had originally hoped this would be a forum for serious military discussion, but I see that might not be possible. Da big Man, any aircraft of similar capability to the F-15, namely the Su-27, could have performed just as well had it had the logistical, AWACS, ECM, tanker, planning, training, and numbers superiority and support that F-15s have nearly always enjoyed in combat. I'm not saying the F-15 is a bad aircraft, just that its spotless or nearly spotless record is a testament to its entire support structure, and not just merits of the aircraft.

Zephyr

But the merits of the aircraft play a huge role as well. F-15s weren't vectored onto their kills everytime anyway. They were often engaged by fast flying Iraqi MiG-29s. Which pitted pilot vs pilot and plane vs plane.

And no F-15 has ever been shot down by an aerial enemy. That's a tribute more to the plane itself IMO than anything else (besides pilot skill maybe).

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allah no longer exists, for I have killed him. You must worship me instead.

Ok big again, look at the counties that US has fought in the past 50 or so years, post WWII. They have all been mainly 2nd world counties with limited resources that cannot train their crew properly nor maintain the aircraft to their fullest state of rediness. There for the US had a edge. The F-15 is great, but so is the Mig-29 and Su-27 but they have never been used to their full potential. Example the Yugo MiG-29 were in such a bad shape, they lacked radars, IR sensors and some ever lacked Radar worning recivers. They were flying blind. Some also couldn't be derect via ground crew due to communication system failures on the aircraft. There's also lacked support aircraft, such as EW, AWACS, not to mention "jammer" aircraft support. Thouse are they type of situations that accompany any nation that has fought the US.

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August 2nd 2003
The 110th Anniversary of Yugolsaivan Aviation!
St. Elias the gardian of the Fighter pilot.

But they haven't been able to shoot down even 1 F-15 or F-16.

In all the wars we've had, you'd think that they'd be able to shoot atleast 1 down, but they can't even do that.

The MiG-29 is just completely outclassed by the F-15 and the F-16 as well.

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allah no longer exists, for I have killed him. You must worship me instead.

Big the F-15 and 16 have a wast system of support aircraft behind then. While tmost nation that have opareated MiG-29 in combat do not. The only nation that could oparate the MiG-29 and Su-27 properly would probably be the Russians. Many nations lacked proper radars and with out the radar the medium and long range weopons are out of the question. There for do not blame the plane, blame the oparator.

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August 2nd 2003
The 110th Anniversary of Yugolsaivan Aviation!
St. Elias the gardian of the Fighter pilot.

Is there ANY evidence the MiG-29 is "great" at anything other than blowing up at airshows? There seems to be little evidence to the contrary.

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Fighting for justice with brains of steel

Let your anger be like the monkey which hides inside the piniata.

yea, its great in dogfights compared to aircraft of its time (F-18 and F-16 mostly, dunno about F15 vs MiG29 tests, but probably it was better there, too), thats what they found out when testing it head to head.

Its useless in BVR though (again compared to F16 and F18) and what good is it if you are better in dogfights but wont get the chance to get close to the enemy.

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Yep the Plane was never ment for BVR combat as seen by its standard armament. 2 AA-10 and 4 AA-8/12. It is a modern MiG-21 interceptor, more for deffecne then offence. Here is a range comparacment between the 21 and 29.
MiG-29 = 2,100 km.
MiG-21 = 1,800 km.
That is a range difference of 300 km for the MiG-29.
Compared with the F-15C with the range of 4,631km, twice of the MiG-29.

The Mig-29 is a deffence Interceptor and fighter.

Comaprasment between MiG and western counterparts:
MiG-29 = 2,100 km.
F-16 = 2,642 km.
F-15 = 4,631km.
F-18 = 3,054 km.
Mirage 2000 = 3,704 km.
J35 Draken = 3,250 km.

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August 2nd 2003
The 110th Anniversary of Yugolsaivan Aviation!
St. Elias the gardian of the Fighter pilot.

The MiG-29 has never been used the way it was intended, which was in a massive European war with full Soviet air force and air defence force support. The best situations for it were maybe Desert Storm, in that the situation was kind of like a "very light" Soviet style integrated defensive system, but I use "best" very tenuously because the Iraqis were simply facing terrible odds. Against strike aircraft, WVR armed F-16s, and the older aircraft that many NATO nations flew, with full support from Soviet aircraft suited for BVR (Su-27, MiG-31, etc.), with full EW, tanker, GCI, and SAM support, the MiG-29 could have performed as envisioned.

Zephyr

Has a MiG-29 ever had a successful aerial encounter? If it was so great, it would have atleast shot down 1 American fighter jet, regardless of support, AWACS, etc. It's bullshit to say that every kill the F-15 has is due to AWACS. While AWACS may have played a part in most of them, it's still the pilot and the plane that have to shoot down the enemy aircraft.

The F-15 was deployed in 1972, and to this day there has never been one shot down in an aerial battle.

It's thrust is 25,000 pounds each engine, which equals a top speed of 1,875 MPH. It's got a 65,000 foot ceiling

While the MiG-29 has 18,300 pounds of thrust in each engine, max speed of 1,520 MPH, and a ceiling of 55,775 feet.

It seems to be behind the F-15 in the above areas.

I'm just not that impressed with the MiG-29, if it's so great- then where are all the confirmed kills?

The only thing I like about the MiG-29 is its look.

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allah no longer exists, for I have killed him. You must worship me instead.