Zephyr Net

first things first , the Yak-44 IS a copy!! copy copy copy. To portray it as anything else is laughable. It has more power and a lower approach speed for sure but still a copy. BTW if nobody else has any data I DO have some "facts" about this plane translated from a Russian site. just say so if you want to see them here.

I have frequently had a different take on the reverse engineering by the Soviets. I suspect they copy the West not so much to reduce developement time ( although they have had enough failures to make them think twice on that) but in order to have something ANYTHING with similar capabilities in the event of a conflict. They can mass produce it to help take up the slack in total effectiveness. I think they were afraid to put thier apples up against our oranges and find out ours could do something they never imagined that would make thier product useless. It's thier version of not quite getting caught with thier pants down. PLus there is the export point of "it's just like the American version only 1/4th the price"

_________________
Fighting for justice with brains of steel

Let your anger be like the monkey which hides inside the piniata.

I agree with you Kap the Russians fell behind in the late 70's and 80's expecialy, their isolation lead them to miss the comming of the computers. That leaft them far behind the west. The Computer age came and the Russians missed the the first train. t can be eazily seen in their aircraft and the configuration of their cocpits.

_________________


August 2nd 2003
The 110th Anniversary of Yugolsaivan Aviation!
St. Elias the gardian of the Fighter pilot.

The Yak-44 is not going to be pushed back into development anytime soon, no matter what the commi's say.

First off, the Kuznetsov does not have catepults, which are needed for the E-2 & Yak-44. Sure, it has a ski jump, but theres simply not enough actual runway for the Yak-44 to speed up and utalize the ski jump on the Kuznetsov. The Su-27K Flanker's can do the ski jump easily, but remember, they have two jet engines, not two props. This is one of the obvious and main reasons for the United Kingdom not having some varient of the E-2 for their aircraft carriers.

They're is simply not enough room aboard the Kuznetsov to actually house the Yak-44. They have trouble holding the 12 Su-27K's that it was designed to carry, imagine trying to also fit in atleast two Yak-44's. Taking away hanger space is the price one pays for sticking Vertical Launch Tubes in the flight deck. Number wise, the hanger bay is only about half the size of the flight deck on the Kuznetsov.

The Yak-44 was intended to be stationed aboard the Ul'yanovsk Class carrier. This carrier - originally designed in 1973 - was to try and compete with Forrestal - Kitty Hawk - Enterprise - Kennedy - Nimitz class carriers by carring 70+ aircraft ranging from the Su-27K, Su-25, Yak-44, and 15 - 20 helicopters. It was inteded to have a ski-jump on the bow similiar to the Kuznetsov but also was intended to have two catepults on the angled flight deck which were obviously to launch the Yak-44 and aircraft that had loadouts to heavy for the ski jump.

You can see this in one of the builders models for the Ul'yanovsk Class.


- Chris

_________________
"'I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country."
- Nathan Hale, 1776

Very interesting, and quite true! However the Kuznetsov was originally slated to go into refit and be fitted with its own waste catapult for operation of the YAK-44.

However with the demise of the Soviets, this project was also shelved. It remains to be seen whether it will ever be implemented...

Th E-2 is a copy BT, if you can't see that then you need to go to an eye-doctor.

I mean you see 2 aircraft that have the exact same airframe, then you're told that they're different aircraft and that one was made by one country before the other. It's simple common sense.

The Russians took a blue-print of the E-2, built it, gave it a new name, and slightly moved and added a few things so some SOB like you could come along in the future and say it wasn't a copy.

_________________


allah no longer exists, for I have killed him. You must worship me instead.

Big I know and agree it is a copy. I never said it wasn't, I was debating the comment about it being a direct copy.

_________________


August 2nd 2003
The 110th Anniversary of Yugolsaivan Aviation!
St. Elias the gardian of the Fighter pilot.

the Yak-44 has more powerful engines and I believe it COULD operate from the Kuzy given a clear deck and a good headwind.

_________________
Fighting for justice with brains of steel

Let your anger be like the monkey which hides inside the piniata.

I dont know Kap.... Thats an awful lot of weight and expensive electronics to gamble like that!

If it were to not have enough forward momentum... not enough airspeed, or the wind over the deck diminished at the wrong time, then your entire AWCs capabilites would be in the drink!

Not a good thing!

That's why they need catapults........

_________________


allah no longer exists, for I have killed him. You must worship me instead.

true, true, but cat failures have happened, and they would only losse HALF thier AEW fleet ROFL. The E-2C min T/O at gross weight is only 1800ft with less powerful engines and no "wind over deck" and I believe smaller wings. IF the Yak-44 Hawkeyeski was operated at less than gross, I think it would have a shot (but I dont want to be at the yoke!!)

_________________
Fighting for justice with brains of steel

Let your anger be like the monkey which hides inside the piniata.

Kuznetsov will most likely never receive an upgrade with a catepult. I wouldn't doubt seeing it sold to China or maybe someone like India within the next five to ten years.

When you barley have enough money to run your air force and submarines, you can flat out forget about having money to have a carrier, no less a CVBG/ CVSG.

- Chris

_________________
"'I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country."
- Nathan Hale, 1776

They seem to have enough to supply our enemys with GPS jammers.......

_________________


allah no longer exists, for I have killed him. You must worship me instead.

I imagine that someone is paying the Russians money for those jammers. They wouldn't just hand out anti-GPS jammers to Arab nations as if they were candy. A lot of the terrorist guys we face in Afghanistan and in Iraq the Russians have also and continue to face in Chechnya.

It's not like the darned things work anyway.

- Chris

_________________
"'I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country."
- Nathan Hale, 1776

No doubt that many groups such as Alqueda (sp) got their start fighting the Russians in the 80's with the support of the US. I do not belive that the Russians would sell to their enemies. They optain their weopons possibly like they did before but buying them off other nations who buy from Russia or by the way of corupt generals.

_________________


August 2nd 2003
The 110th Anniversary of Yugolsaivan Aviation!
St. Elias the gardian of the Fighter pilot.

BT, your entire last statement is contrdictory!

The Russians DID sell GPS jammers to Saddam... Saddam DID supply the Rebels the Russians are facing with weapons and money.. Al Queda IS in Iraq fighting along side of Saddam loyalists, using whatever weapons are at hand (including possible JPS jammers that have not yet been captured). Al Queda IS connected to the rebels in Chetchnya (sp?)

SO come on! Stop with all the symantical bullshit...

"Its a Copy but not a DIRECT Copy"... Give me abreak! What a joke....

You are starting to sound more like Leo everyday...