Zephyr Net

I don't consider the Yak-38 a copy of the Harrier. And the uniqueness of both lies only in the fact that they acheived operational service. Many other designs and prototypes existed. Both the US and the USSR realized that destruction of runways is a vital mission in wartime, and any aircraft that could operate from limited space (i.e. zero launch F-100s), would have a distinct advantage. In the 1950s the US was experimenting with VTOL, with various prototypes, including the X-14:

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/fta/fta1297.htm

This aircraft accomplished its first flight on 19 February 1957. The Hawker P.1127, ultimate forebearer of the Harrier, completed it's first flight (in conventional mode) on 13 March 1961. The Yak-36 'Freehand' made it's first untethered hover on 9 January 1963. It can be assumed from these dates that development began in the late 50s. They look nothing alike:





From the Hawker spawned the Harrier line, and from the principles of the Yak-36 came the Yak-38, a streamlined, enlarged aircraft that could have at least some combat utility. There is some credence to what the Russians said regarding their space shuttle 'Buran': given a set problem, and similar technical knowledge, and perhaps a peak at what the "other side" is doing, the answers will probably bear a resemblance. This is certainly true of the heavy airlifters, as the C-5, An-124, An-22, Il-76, C-141, and C-17 all bear similarities: high wing, 4 engine transports, the largest two of which have nose doors.

Zephyr

There are so many Russian planes out there that look almost exactly alike their American counterparts that there's no way in can be a coincidence.

The Russians have after all copied American planes rivet by rivet in the past (proven fact), so what would stop them from doing it again?

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allah no longer exists, for I have killed him. You must worship me instead.

NOW BIG......
The only plane i know off and anyone has mentioned being copied rivet by rivet is the Tu-4. And i belive it wasnt an exact copy as it lost some of its size in the conversion from imperial to mertic. What are there other planes u speak off that were copied rivet by rivet?

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August 2nd 2003
The 110th Anniversary of Yugolsaivan Aviation!
St. Elias the gardian of the Fighter pilot.

You missed my point- I'm not saying that every plane the Russians built was a rivet by rivet copy.........they'd have to get their hands on our planes to do that.

My point was that nearly every plane in the Russian airforce atleast partially resembels a Western counterpart.

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allah no longer exists, for I have killed him. You must worship me instead.

BiG me and u will play guess that planes copy...... A bit later, but i want to know what are all these planes that look alike u reffer to ?

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August 2nd 2003
The 110th Anniversary of Yugolsaivan Aviation!
St. Elias the gardian of the Fighter pilot.

Here are a few...

The Russian Copy of our XB-70...



The Russian copy of our B-1A...




The Russian SU-25 and the Northrop A-9 (lost to the A-10, plans confirmed stolen by the KGB via Northrop investigation)





What we see here is to much duplication of development for it to be independantly accomplished. The Russians simply got ahold of our technical data and then went about the task in a very Russian way.. reverse engineering plus good old Russian Know How to make these beautiful aircraft...

I have my doubts there is too much info about Bullsh*t and not enuff about the real fact on the internet and in book. It almost allways one sided, eighter Russian or US. I see much of the resemblence my self but there is soo much data i read that says other wize. The only planes that i can say for sure are copies are the B-29=Tu-4 and C-47=Li-2.

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August 2nd 2003
The 110th Anniversary of Yugolsaivan Aviation!
St. Elias the gardian of the Fighter pilot.

Exactly CAG- there is *no* way that all the similarities are coincidence. Somebody obviously copied somebody, and seeing as how in all the above instances- the U.S. plane came first, I'll leave you to do the math

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allah no longer exists, for I have killed him. You must worship me instead.

Well BT you can stay in denial all you want... But photographic evidence and then investigations into stolen plans and technical information by the CIA and the manufacturers themselves all point to the same thing...

The Russians got alot of ideas from the west... However they also excelled at their own 'secrets'. But the SU-25 is a definate child of the Northrop A-9...

Yes and that is a very relative point... It just can not be coincidential that right AFTER the US released certain aircraft that close copies of these aircraft would SUDDENLY go into development in the old USSR.

However their MiG-1.42/44 and S-37 are quite different from any western aircraft and show that the Russian Aircraft Industry has indeed 'grown up' into a very technically oriented and successful organization..

Now here is the prob with russia, they never said anything to the public, the only time the west found out about a new plane is trough airshows and maybe thought spy sattleights, the MiG-29 is a prime example. how can u say forsure when the development began when the ruskies wont say the exact date. Everywhere i go i find 10 different dates.

Case of A-9 and Su-25.
The A-9 in 1972.
Su-25 devlopment; early sixties, mid-lates sixties, 1966 , 1968, 1969, 1970???? now any of these dates right??? I cant tell for sh*t.

Only things that sound right is that the program started in 1968, first model done sometime by 1969 to 1970, it first flew in 1975.

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August 2nd 2003
The 110th Anniversary of Yugolsaivan Aviation!
St. Elias the gardian of the Fighter pilot.

BT, you are grasping at straws...

Here is the original SU-25 development date in the aircraft museum in RUSSIA. THEY dated it 1975. I guess THEY would know! LOL!!!!!

Thnkx CAG..... Wait did it first fly in 1975 or the development stated?? I cant read russian verywell.

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August 2nd 2003
The 110th Anniversary of Yugolsaivan Aviation!
St. Elias the gardian of the Fighter pilot.

And just to cut you off from arguing that is the inservice date... Here is the same plaque for the MiG-23 dated 1966 when it was first in development. Its IOC date was 1971...

Feel Free! However you better be wary of violating TOS, as you just did with the red neck insult. All I did was confuse your initials and point out some interesting FACTS...

I suggest you remove it before you start something else up... Like another quick trip to nowhere. BTW I wasnt the one that got to kicked last time, since I believe it was on HL and you whined about it through all the messageboards, including VNFAWING and as a result I bumped you from there.

My name is my Intials and ACE. I dont understand what u mean by HL and whine, the only mgn board I have evern been on were this one and VNFAWING, not counting Cent and Red Bears site where i posted like 5 or so posts maybe less.

This is what confuses me:

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August 2nd 2003
The 110th Anniversary of Yugolsaivan Aviation!
St. Elias the gardian of the Fighter pilot.