Zephyr Net

Cent the training level varies between nation also the flight time per year variers as well. some nation cannot afford to have thier pilots fly a hundred hours a year. Some can't ever maintain half that. Thouse pilots are behind the time and would most likely get shot down in aireal combat.

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August 2nd 2003
The 110th Anniversary of Yugolsaivan Aviation!
St. Elias the gardian of the Fighter pilot.

Training is one thing is right. But still they are all taught valuable lessons and the fundamentals that they need to know for combat. A pilot has to pass loads of tests no matter where he is from and they have to know how to use their aircraft fully before they can even wear a pair of wings. Those Iraqi pilots learned in the first Gulf War and on the no-fly zones that US equippment was not to be reckoned with and hell I think that's part of the reason they didn't take off this time around. That and they problem couldn't because I bet we hit the runways right off the bat in that shock & awe part. We probably used B-1s, B-2s, and F-117s to crater the runways so that they were inoperable and then the pilots looked, laughed, and said "Hell Saddam is gone, I'm staying on the ground here, no need to take off and get my ass shot down!"

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"Smile, AMRAAMs love you!"
"May the PATRIOTS down the FROGS!"
1Lt. Centurian57_76/369th

For all your FA needs and Game Remod 6 visit

Cent would agree with you in theory, all pilots should know and do know how to operate thier aircraft. But some do not get enuff flight hours to prefect what they know, its like being told how to ride a bike and never being able to. You may know all the steps how, but still not be able to ride it.

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August 2nd 2003
The 110th Anniversary of Yugolsaivan Aviation!
St. Elias the gardian of the Fighter pilot.

I can see that in the case of Afghanistan if those pilots actually got off the ground even though they flew Vietnam-era MiG-21Fs but not the Iraqi Air Force. They had plenty of time for training and combat sorties and what not. I would also find it hard to believe for North Korea as well because they have all the time in the world to train and I bet they are doing it now. Training is one thing but in combat a whole lot can change real fast. I'd have to say the IAF (Israel) def. knows that lesson...

_________________
"Smile, AMRAAMs love you!"
"May the PATRIOTS down the FROGS!"
1Lt. Centurian57_76/369th

For all your FA needs and Game Remod 6 visit

Cent money great problem, some nation cannot afford such training , there is talk of NK pilots not being able to get enuff flight hours due to fuel problems and just general money prob. Many nations that have suffered from wars and sanctions suffer that fate. Serbia & Montenegro, Croatia, Albania, North Korea, Iraq, Iran, Canada..... the list goes on. Many nation cannot afford to maintain their fleets or train their pilots properly.

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August 2nd 2003
The 110th Anniversary of Yugolsaivan Aviation!
St. Elias the gardian of the Fighter pilot.

Iran and Iraq have oil fields though and I am sure Iraq pumped out plenty of oil for it's own personal use. Serbia yeah I can see that because they've been in a state of turmoil for a very very long time now as well as that Balkan region. Canada, well we'll save that for later But as far as NK goes, I'm not entirely willing to outrule the fact that China could very well be supplying them and I guarantee oil would be on the top of their list, after all Kim Jong-Il takes all the money and puts it into his military rather than for the people so...

_________________
"Smile, AMRAAMs love you!"
"May the PATRIOTS down the FROGS!"
1Lt. Centurian57_76/369th

For all your FA needs and Game Remod 6 visit

Cent there is also another problem you may have not considered. Remeber the Sanction againt Yugoslavia prohibited import of military equipment so the aircraft cannot be repaired. Oil is not the only problem maintance is. Thnik of Iran and its US bought jets. Money and in some cases sanctions prohibit counties from maintaing their fleets.

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August 2nd 2003
The 110th Anniversary of Yugolsaivan Aviation!
St. Elias the gardian of the Fighter pilot.

Excuses excuses BT, if the MiG-29 is so great why aren't the tables turned? Why aren't you attacking the F-15 or F-16 with us thinking up the excuses?

Why? Cause neither of those planes has ever lost in an aerial dogfight.

Nuff said, end of story- so much for that shit.....

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allah no longer exists, for I have killed him. You must worship me instead.

Big in why would I attack the F-16 and the 15? They are great planes. I never said they are not.

My point is that thouse aircraft have had a advantage on their side.

Heres MiG-29 combat record (As known to me):
Gulf War (Iraq, 1991)
Chechnya (Russia, 1994-present)
Kosovo - Operation Allied Force (Serbia, 1999)

Chechya Can be dimissed because there is no aircobat.
Ok Iraq had 1 sq. of 24 MiG-29's with some half a dozen (4-6) excaping to Iran
15 were left after the war.
Yugo had 16 sorry 14, 2 are dual trainers, 6 were shot down. All aircraft lacked radar and other sensors.

Ok heres Iraqi airforce fighters in 1990:
MiG-21 - 150
MiG-23 - 90 (14 to Iran)
MiG-25 - 25 (7 to Iran)
MiG-29 - 24 (4?? to Iran)
Mirage F1 - 94 (24 to Iran)
Out of that the MiG-21 and 23 can be dismissed as they are older.

Now to dimiss someones claims of AiM-9 shoting down a MiG-29 here is a chart from FAS.ORG

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August 2nd 2003
The 110th Anniversary of Yugolsaivan Aviation!
St. Elias the gardian of the Fighter pilot.

They have an advantage on their side cause their better.

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allah no longer exists, for I have killed him. You must worship me instead.

Big again you dont seem to get anything.

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August 2nd 2003
The 110th Anniversary of Yugolsaivan Aviation!
St. Elias the gardian of the Fighter pilot.

North Korea really doesn't fly their planes much. Even with them throwing everything at their military they still don't have enough oil. That's why when a couple MiGs flew a training sortie over the ocean some weeks ago, and when they intercepted that RC-135, everyone was kind of surprised.

And Da Big Man, if you can't add anything new to the discussion, why even post?

Zephyr

Well excuse me- but the last time I checked this was a MiG-29 vs F-15/16 discussion.

I've heard quite a bit of BS from other people in here as well, yet this is only directed at me.........

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allah no longer exists, for I have killed him. You must worship me instead.

lol that chart left out the famous LASER bombing of a hovering(?) Iraqi helo by an F-15E Mud Hen.

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Fighting for justice with brains of steel

Let your anger be like the monkey which hides inside the piniata.

LoL....... Man would you like to have that mission in FA.

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August 2nd 2003
The 110th Anniversary of Yugolsaivan Aviation!
St. Elias the gardian of the Fighter pilot.