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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2003 08:30 am 
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Of course they have J-8s, one of them only hit our EP-3 2 years ago..........

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 21:34 pm 
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I don't think anyone was debating the existance of J-8s(?).

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 09:45 am 
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Zephyr wrote:
I don't think there's any malicious intent here, "China Defence Daily" (www.sinodefence.com) lists the F-8IIM among the variants, and in the write up says there are unconfirmed reports of a few J-8Cs in service, J-8Cs supposedly being domestic F-8IIMs. Then for "inventory" it explicitly lists only J-8B/Ds:

http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/air ... er/j8b.asp

Zephyr


I know no one was debating it Zephyr, but we all know they have it. So it was kinda a gimme when you mentioned it in the above qoute........no new news.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 13:07 pm 
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China is more worried about their country crumbling apart and adventually splitting, more then they are worried about trying to grasp the economy of Taiwan.

If the Chinese invaded Taiwan and (forcefully) took over the country, no one would conduct buisness with the Chinese. The United Nations would most likely put economic sanctions on the Chinese. I wouldn't be suprised if you were to see the United States conduct a (Cuban Missile Crisis style) blockade on the island of Taiwan to cut off any invading forces from mainland China.

A war with China will most likely never happen, though. There were a lot of those know it alls on television right before the Iraq invasion saying that the Chinese might invade Taiwan or that the North Koreans might invade the South Koreans because how spread out the American forces are. It never happened and it won't happen in a situation like that because both the Chinese and North Koreans know that if we were backed into a corner like that, we'd have no choice but to look at the nuclear option.

Bejing might be a great test bed for the nuclear tipped Tomahawk Cruise Missiles. :twisted:

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 15:32 pm 
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It would be a tough fight, but I don't think we'd have to go nuclear to win.......

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 15:52 pm 
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In the eyes of the world the US would be seen as the next Nazi empire if they used nuclear weapons. There is nothing that can justify the use of nuclear weapons in this day in age. They destroy more than just the enemy because just look at weather patterns and how radiation could easily find it's way back to America in wind currents. In nuclear war nobody wins. Ever wonder why Kennedy and Khruschev didn't use nuclear weapons? They never used them because they realized that if they used them there would be nothing to conquer. Everybody would lose. It's a good thing that they didn't listen to there generals around them because it was absolutely insane to believe that a nuclear war can be won.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 18:18 pm 
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If you refer to the Cuban Missile Crises then to my knowledge none of Kennedys generals suggested a first nuclear strike- they just suggested a conventional airstrike and amphibious landing.

And I don't think the Soviets would have launched nukes if we did that- because of what u said, they'd be destroyed. They probably would have defended Cuba conventionaly.

Anyways- if nukes were ever used it all depends on the circumstances.

If a bomb ever went off here in the U.S.- then you're damn right I'd support a call for nuclear retaliation..........make that FULL nuclear retaliation.

It's not a good idea to stir us up, cause when the U.S. stings it hurts a lot more than when a hornet does.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 18:31 pm 
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China has too much economic growth going on and potential growth in the future to even consider unprovoked warfare. Any war would seriously hurt foreign investment in China, which is driving their economy. They are currently second in receiving foreign investment to the US, half of their number comes from Hong Kong which is ridiculous considering the size of HK.

Zephyr


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 22:45 pm 
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If you refer to the Cuban Missile Crises then to my knowledge none of Kennedys generals suggested a first nuclear strike- they just suggested a conventional airstrike and amphibious landing.

I realize that but his generals were prepared to use nuclear weapons if they had too. An air strike wouldn't have done the job because some operational nukes would have been fired off at the first sign of attack. I'm absolutely convinced from the history that I've studied that his generals and chiefs of staff wanted kennedy's finger on the button. A nuclear attack would have been the only thing that could simultaneousy take out every possible target and make the island of Cuba the next Atlantis. It was a trying time and they didn't have alot of time to decide what to do and they didn't have time to decide the dangers of their possibilities.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 16:42 pm 
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But you just said that neither Kruschev and Keenedy didnt want to use nukes for fear of their countrys being destroyed. Now your saying you think the Cubans/Russians would have fired at the first sight of an American plane?

You know we had low level recon missions during all that don't you? The U-2s weren't the only recon planes we used, we also has F-8s with cameras hooked on.

If what you say is true- then why didn't they fire their nukes when those planes flew over?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 18:38 pm 
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da big man! wrote:
But you just said that neither Kruschev and Keenedy didnt want to use nukes for fear of their countrys being destroyed. Now your saying you think the Cubans/Russians would have fired at the first sight of an American plane?

You know we had low level recon missions during all that don't you? The U-2s weren't the only recon planes we used, we also has F-8s with cameras hooked on.

If what you say is true- then why didn't they fire their nukes when those planes flew over?


Russian and Cuban personnel operating anti-aircraft guns and SAM sites had orders to engage and destroy any and all US reconnaissance, fighter, and bomber aircraft that they saw. The idea was that, if you saw 13 Days (historically very accurate) you would have seen that Kennedy said any attack from Cuba upon the US would be seen as an attack on the world and that the US would attack Russia, and vice versa if the USSR moved on Berlin it would have been just as disatrous. If word got to Kennedy that US planes were being fired upon he would have acted and used F-105s to take out the SAM sites. That would in turn generated more SAM shots at US aircraft and then the whole kitten kaboodle would have gone up. It's an ascending staircase and eventually it stops and nukes come flying.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2003 00:05 am 
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da big man! wrote:
But you just said that neither Kruschev and Keenedy didnt want to use nukes for fear of their countrys being destroyed. Now your saying you think the Cubans/Russians would have fired at the first sight of an American plane?

You know we had low level recon missions during all that don't you? The U-2s weren't the only recon planes we used, we also has F-8s with cameras hooked on.

If what you say is true- then why didn't they fire their nukes when those planes flew over?


It's the situation of damned if you do damned if you don't. They didn't want to use nukes but if the crap hit the fan they would have had no choice. Also you have to remember none of the sites were active during the low altitude recon missions.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2003 01:38 am 
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Yes neither of the sides wanted to have to use nukes but they were both prepared to use them if they had to and that could have been brought on within 1 second. Things just weren't kosher but hell, we won :)

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2003 11:24 am 
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I believe the USAF lost 1 U-2 and the USN lost 1 F-8 over Cuba during the crisis...


AAA and SAM fire...


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2003 13:01 pm 
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Centurian wrote:
Yes neither of the sides wanted to have to use nukes but they were both prepared to use them if they had to and that could have been brought on within 1 second. Things just weren't kosher but hell, we won :)


Looking back at it all Cent I think everybody won in a way.


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