Zephyr Net

All excuses BT- if it were so great it would have atleast shot down 1 American fighter.

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allah no longer exists, for I have killed him. You must worship me instead.

I thought the manuver kill by the EF-111 was Mirage F1 not a MiG-29. Do you have anymore inf on that kill Zph, I would realy like to know a bit more.

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August 2nd 2003
The 110th Anniversary of Yugolsaivan Aviation!
St. Elias the gardian of the Fighter pilot.

Don't really know any details but ACIG.org may have them.

Zephyr

Well the manuever kill was a Mirage F1EQ and it wasn't so much a manuever as it was the Mirage ran out of gas trying to chase the EF-111.

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"Smile, AMRAAMs love you!"
"May the PATRIOTS down the FROGS!"
1Lt. Centurian57_76/369th

For all your FA needs and Game Remod 6 visit

a couple of things regarding war in general. Always, every, and never, have no place in the war fighting vernacular, weird stuff happens and you cant count on anything being cut in stone. SA is probobly THE overwhelming factor in the vast majority of kills, "first look first kill" is still very strong advice for winning in the air or ground. The people manning AWACS and GCI coms are NOT better fighters than the pilots, but they DO have vastly superior SA compared to a pilot trying to fly, navigate, dodge SAMs and get a proper solution on an enemy. Also I dont think you can consider Sparrow kills as anything more than tech vs. tech, it wouldent matter much if the tech was on an F-15 or something FAR less aerodynamically advanced, it's just a question of general positioning and countermeasure vs counter-countermeasure.

as to the MiG-29 not getting a fair chance to fight? NO FREAKIN DUH!! You do everything you can to match YOUR advantages against your enemies disadvantages!! The submariners apparently have a saying "if it looks like a fair fight, go away and come back later". If the Mig-29 wants to knifefight it HAS to develope the countermeasures to get in close or else it's a failure pure and simple.

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Fighting for justice with brains of steel

Let your anger be like the monkey which hides inside the piniata.

There are upgrade systems aviable for the MiG-29 to make them BVR combat ready but th problem is counties such as Iraq, Yugo, Cuba cannot afford them.

Also if some people do not know there were 4 MiG-21's and a MiG-23 send to yugoslavia for repairsby Iraq in 1989-90. They can give us a clue on how well maitained the Iraqi fleet was at that time. They are curently non-flyable and will stay in that manner, they are not worth the truble. They were not maintaied properly.

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August 2nd 2003
The 110th Anniversary of Yugolsaivan Aviation!
St. Elias the gardian of the Fighter pilot.

I beleive you are actually talking about two seperate incidents...

The first was by an EF-111A against a Mirage F-1 and is indeed a maneuver kill, as the Raven went low at full afterburner and the F-1 tried to follow and did a lawn dart as the bottom of the parabolic curve of his maneuver intersected with the ground!

The second was by another EF-111A, which 'dragged' another Mirage F-1 by slowing down and speeding up to keep the Mirage 'interested' but out of range until the Mirage went past bingo fuel and flamed out...

Many they are right thouse Mirage F1 pilots were crazy.

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August 2nd 2003
The 110th Anniversary of Yugolsaivan Aviation!
St. Elias the gardian of the Fighter pilot.

Well what do you expect? They were Iraqis whos command and control had disappeared in gigantic blasts of GBUs!

Well I was refering more to the FAS.org, where that said hat thouse pilots were the best trained and were twice as likly to ingage an enemy aircraft. I mean thouse ingagements are nuts, they ran them selves into the ground.

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August 2nd 2003
The 110th Anniversary of Yugolsaivan Aviation!
St. Elias the gardian of the Fighter pilot.

Ok here is some more info from Itaq iran war that may sustain the theory that their fleet was pourly maintained.


http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/ops/war/iran-iraq.htm

It also shows that they lacked the skill to use modern weopons efficently.

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August 2nd 2003
The 110th Anniversary of Yugolsaivan Aviation!
St. Elias the gardian of the Fighter pilot.

So hypothetically of course, would you rather ...
A) be in F-15s with AWAC support, but with IR missiles only.
OR
B) be in Hang-Gliders with AWAC support and BVR missiles.

vs crazed Mig-29 Pilots coming up in a situation where your side is occupying and has air superiority?

geese, thats a tough one, guess I'd bet my ass on the technology and go with the BVR Hang-Gliders ..

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"cool beanz"
D. "FETCH" Jordan

No doubt, considering how quickly we kicked them out of Kuwait in 92 and then drove through to baghdad this spring...

ACIG.org lists a MiG-29 kill as manuever on their Gulf War chart, the exact data is:

date: 19Jan91
squadron: 58TFS/33TFW
pilot: C.Rodriguez
aircraft: F-15C/85-0014
method: Maneuver
victim: MiG-29B
victim AF: IrAF

Zephyr

Hell I go with the BVR glider, nowdays, first see first kill.

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August 2nd 2003
The 110th Anniversary of Yugolsaivan Aviation!
St. Elias the gardian of the Fighter pilot.