Zephyr Net :: View topic - Commanche = No More

The officials said the army will now start to plan an entirely new reconnaissance aircraft as a replacement for the OH-58 Kiowa.

The army also plans to buy a new version of the AH-64 Apache, known as Block III. Army officials Monday said this version will have all the advantages of the Comanche except stealthiness. The army will also:

accelerate the fielding of Aircraft Survivability Equipment technology to forces in Iraq and Afghanistan,
buy 303 new light utility helicopters to replace 422 UH-1 Hueys, which will be phased out,
buy 80 additional UH-60L Black Hawk utility helicopters above what had already been planned,
buy 25 new fixed-wing C-XX inter-theatre cargo planes to replace the C-23 Sherpa,
buy 20 CH-47 Chinook heavy-lift helicopters above what had already been planned,
fund a joint heavy-lift helicopter programme to replace all the army's cargo and heavy-lift helicopters by 2020, and
fund new plans for unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs).

Have we ever lost a helo to RF SAMs? I think they are looking at the threat as it exists in Iraq and saying if those were Commanche's instead of Blackhawks, Kiowas, and Apaches they would still all have been shot down. Since a helo naturally works down low, RF SAMs are screened by terrain except at close range.

In today's world, the expected enemies have limited systems that can be isolated and destroyed before the Helo ever enter the airspace. They wont be defending agaisnt a massive armored thrust into their own operating areas...

CAG out...

North Korea's radar technology is out of date by 20+ years... THe newest system's are based on SOviet designs from teh 70s and have small numbers of them. Most are fixed sites and easy targets...

They have no $$$ to buy any up to date capabilities and have very very limited resources and no strategic reserves for fuel fo rthe armor they currently have, much less to use it in an offensive strike...

THey are an easy target for offensive helo operation...

Author:	Centurian57_369th [ Mon Feb 23, 2004 14:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Commanche = No More
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s ... ellation_3 DAMN!

Author:	KAPTOR [ Mon Feb 23, 2004 14:40 pm ]
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yeah I was just reading it this morning. Bout time, it has no mission left.

Author:	da big man! [ Mon Feb 23, 2004 16:55 pm ]
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We knew ye well

Author:	Zephyr [ Tue Feb 24, 2004 01:23 am ]
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JDW has some additional details: http://www.janes.com/defence/air_forces/news/jdw/jdw040223_2_n.shtml Quote: The officials said the army will now start to plan an entirely new reconnaissance aircraft as a replacement for the OH-58 Kiowa. The army also plans to buy a new version of the AH-64 Apache, known as Block III. Army officials Monday said this version will have all the advantages of the Comanche except stealthiness. The army will also: accelerate the fielding of Aircraft Survivability Equipment technology to forces in Iraq and Afghanistan, buy 303 new light utility helicopters to replace 422 UH-1 Hueys, which will be phased out, buy 80 additional UH-60L Black Hawk utility helicopters above what had already been planned, buy 25 new fixed-wing C-XX inter-theatre cargo planes to replace the C-23 Sherpa, buy 20 CH-47 Chinook heavy-lift helicopters above what had already been planned, fund a joint heavy-lift helicopter programme to replace all the army's cargo and heavy-lift helicopters by 2020, and fund new plans for unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs). Zephyr

Author:	Centurian57_369th [ Tue Feb 24, 2004 03:41 am ]
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I'm just going to sit here and cry.

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Commanche = No More http://jkpeterson.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1059	Page 1 of 2

Author:	da big man! [ Tue Feb 24, 2004 16:07 pm ]
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That's like cutting the B-2 because it's an unconventional design.....

Author:	CAG Hotshot [ Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:23 pm ]
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I guess the Army, in its infinite wisdom, has determined that IR missiles present a larger threat to helo survivability then do radar missiles...

Author:	KAPTOR [ Mon Mar 01, 2004 13:46 pm ]
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Have we ever lost a helo to RF SAMs? I think they are looking at the threat as it exists in Iraq and saying if those were Commanche's instead of Blackhawks, Kiowas, and Apaches they would still all have been shot down. Since a helo naturally works down low, RF SAMs are screened by terrain except at close range.

Author:	Centurian57_369th [ Mon Mar 01, 2004 14:20 pm ]
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KAPTOR wrote: Have we ever lost a helo to RF SAMs? I think they are looking at the threat as it exists in Iraq and saying if those were Commanche's instead of Blackhawks, Kiowas, and Apaches they would still all have been shot down. Since a helo naturally works down low, RF SAMs are screened by terrain except at close range. Yes a RF SAM would be under minimum altitude for a helicopter operation whereas the MANPAD is devestating but its nothing that can't be solved with IR jamming and flares.

Author:	CAG Hotshot [ Thu Mar 25, 2004 15:01 pm ]
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The biggest threat to a Helo is... 1) another Helo... threat consists of IR Missiles and cannon 2) Fighter... threat consists of IR and RF Missiles and cannon 3) AAA... Probably the lagest threat in an Iraqi type situation and has accounted for a majority of the losses... 4) MANPAD... IR threat that is second only to AAA in major threat. 5) RF SAM... threat consists of radar only guided missiles... However the Comanche's stealth was more designed to hide it from search radars on the ground and in the air... not just to make it survivable against SAM threats... However since there is no HUGE threat, like the former Soviet Union, that could continually field massive search radars on a scale to replace any losses, the mission it was designed for turly does not exist. In today's world, the expected enemies have limited systems that can be isolated and destroyed before the Helo ever enter the airspace. They wont be defending agaisnt a massive armored thrust into their own operating areas... CAG out...

Author:	Centurian57_369th [ Thu Mar 25, 2004 23:45 pm ]
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CAG Hotshot wrote: In today's world, the expected enemies have limited systems that can be isolated and destroyed before the Helo ever enter the airspace. They wont be defending agaisnt a massive armored thrust into their own operating areas... CAG out... Until North Korea.

Author:	CAG Hotshot [ Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:13 pm ]
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North Korea's radar technology is out of date by 20+ years... THe newest system's are based on SOviet designs from teh 70s and have small numbers of them. Most are fixed sites and easy targets... They have no $$$ to buy any up to date capabilities and have very very limited resources and no strategic reserves for fuel fo rthe armor they currently have, much less to use it in an offensive strike... THey are an easy target for offensive helo operation...

Author:	KAPTOR [ Fri Mar 26, 2004 13:49 pm ]
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was reading recently that one of the main missions for Comanche was to make deep strikes against search RADARs ala the Apache opening attack in ODS. We have a bunch of weapons now that can do that, seems like a stupid idea to begin with. Attack fixed targets with long range missles, much more efficient.

Author:	Centurian57_369th [ Fri Mar 26, 2004 15:51 pm ]
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CAG Hotshot wrote: North Korea's radar technology is out of date by 20+ years... THe newest system's are based on SOviet designs from teh 70s and have small numbers of them. Most are fixed sites and easy targets... They have no $$$ to buy any up to date capabilities and have very very limited resources and no strategic reserves for fuel fo rthe armor they currently have, much less to use it in an offensive strike... THey are an easy target for offensive helo operation... But now if they recieve lend and lease type stuff from China and Russia you better believe '70s becomes up-to-date fast.

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Author:	CAG Hotshot [ Sat Mar 27, 2004 19:36 pm ]
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Yes and if the world is hit by a meteor tomorrow we will all die... Its about the same odds that the NKs will receive any military aid from either Russia or China unless they have hard currency to pay for it... Also Chinese radar technology is quite far behind the west... The only way they could become a threat would be from teh RUssians who will not ever sell anything without hard $$$ income to pay for it. They are still hurting as much, if not more, then they were in 1992 when the Soviets collapsed... You are also not realizing the current political situation on the Penisula... SOuth Korea is now a much more important trading partner to both the Russians and the Chinese then the NKs could ever hope to be... THe selling of modern weapons to Pyongyang with the current nuclear sitwation would hurt the Chinese and the Russians immensly as the SKs would cue them off from the importation of high technology and $$$ from the trade... CAG out...