Zephyr Net :: View topic - Insight on R-27AE?

Except for some components, the R-27 (AA-10 Alamo) line of missiles are manufactured and assembled in Ukraine.

The R-27AE was proposed by Ukraine as its home-grown competitor on the world market for the Russian RVV-AE (export R-77). As a competitor for a Russian product, it has become apparent (and confirmed through some recent research) that it will never have a place in the Russian arsenal. In cases when Russian aircraft carry an active radar missile, it will be the R-77.

Unlike the R-27AE, the Kh-41 has at least appeared at airshows on a Su-33 pylon and dummy models have been test-flown (but not launched). The Kh-41 is also built in Russia, which leaves open the possibility, however slight, that it could become operational in the "near future", if world events took a different course.

A similarly dubious case could be argued for allowing the R-27AE to remain on Ukrainian Su-27s, but not Russian ones (despite the fact Ukraine has no intention to field this missile itself, only to produce it for export - Ukraine would require R-27AE seekers for from Russia, which Russia would only provide if it was going to receive export profits as part of the deal). Unfortunately for technical reasons, this is not possible in Lock On, the R-27AE must be available either for all Su-27-equipped countries in Lock On, or for none.

-Swingkid

Well from what Swingkid says it was only a proposal from the Ukraine arms industry. IIRC R-27ME is a modification to the R-27RE for the Su-33, with better over water performance?

Zephyr

So you are saying that no Active Seeker version of the AA-10 will be carried by a Russian SU-27...

What about the Chinese? Have they shown an interest in this missile? I know they are building thier own active seeker missile, but you know with their track record on missile development it may never work out...

CAG out...

Uhhh Cent, I never asked anything about the R-77...

Doing some web searches it seems that this missile, R-27AE may actually be designated AA-10 Alamo-E. The Chinese have R-77s, "locally designated R129", and the Su-30MKK can reportedly carry them. The Russians are involved with the PL-12/SD-10 active radar missile so there doesn't seem to be a market for the Ukranian R-27AE there.

If/when the RuAF upgrades Flankers to Su-27SM standard, they will be able to carry R-77s.

I'm still unsure about the R-27ME, its a SARH version with even more improved range? There don't appear to be any passive radar homing R-27s in service anywhere and they seem to be just a rumor/concept from years ago.

Zephyr

MiG-31 (Type 01; `Foxhound-A'): Two-seat, all-weather, all-altitude interceptor, able to be guided automatically, and to engage targets, under ground control. Designated MiG-31DZ or MiG-31 01DZ when fitted with AAR probe.
Detailed description applies to the above version.

MiG-31B (Type 01B Izdeliye 12): Second production and service variant with improved Zaslon-A radar, ECM and EW equipment and with upgraded R-33S missiles. Replaced 01/01DZ in production in late 1990. Avionics upgrade includes A-723 long-range navigation system, compatible with Loran/Omega and Chaika ground stations.

MiG-31BS (Type 01BS): Designation applied to Type 01/01DZ when converted to MiG-31B standard.

Author:	Zephyr [ Mon Mar 22, 2004 21:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Insight on R-27AE?
Quote: Except for some components, the R-27 (AA-10 Alamo) line of missiles are manufactured and assembled in Ukraine. The R-27AE was proposed by Ukraine as its home-grown competitor on the world market for the Russian RVV-AE (export R-77). As a competitor for a Russian product, it has become apparent (and confirmed through some recent research) that it will never have a place in the Russian arsenal. In cases when Russian aircraft carry an active radar missile, it will be the R-77. Unlike the R-27AE, the Kh-41 has at least appeared at airshows on a Su-33 pylon and dummy models have been test-flown (but not launched). The Kh-41 is also built in Russia, which leaves open the possibility, however slight, that it could become operational in the "near future", if world events took a different course. A similarly dubious case could be argued for allowing the R-27AE to remain on Ukrainian Su-27s, but not Russian ones (despite the fact Ukraine has no intention to field this missile itself, only to produce it for export - Ukraine would require R-27AE seekers for from Russia, which Russia would only provide if it was going to receive export profits as part of the deal). Unfortunately for technical reasons, this is not possible in Lock On, the R-27AE must be available either for all Su-27-equipped countries in Lock On, or for none. -Swingkid From: http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=400102&f=38610606&m=380103192 Can anyone confirm this? Zephyr

Author:	Centurian57_369th [ Mon Mar 22, 2004 23:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Insight on R-27AE?
I thought the R-27AE was only a theoretical modification proposed by Russian arms people during the mid-90s. It goes with the same category as the R-27ME, which has something like a 93 mile range to take out AWACS and such. Also the every reported passive seeker R-27, which has carried over to the passive seeker R-77. There are also the normal rumors of passive seeker AIM-120s having been field tested. But it's all rumor. As far as I know only the R-27R, R-27T, R-27RE, and R-27TE have been fielded, tested, and gotten anywhere past the drawing boards. I have found no evidence to suggest otherwise. I only include them in GR6 because it's fun to have them

Author:	Zephyr [ Tue Mar 23, 2004 00:56 am ]
Post subject:
Well from what Swingkid says it was only a proposal from the Ukraine arms industry. IIRC R-27ME is a modification to the R-27RE for the Su-33, with better over water performance? Zephyr

Author:	Centurian57_369th [ Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:19 am ]
Post subject:
Zephyr wrote: Well from what Swingkid says it was only a proposal from the Ukraine arms industry. IIRC R-27ME is a modification to the R-27RE for the Su-33, with better over water performance? Zephyr Yes here is how you should look at the R-27s. The R-27R is like the AIM-7E. The R-27RE is like the AIM-7F/M. And the R-27ME is supposedly like the AIM-7P/R I imagine. The ME would be the definitive model having a long reach and a better seeker. But it would definitely not hit anything out that far, just be able to target out that far and theoretically engage a target. It would also be SARH guided. I believe it was to be for the Su-35 as well.

Author:	CAG Hotshot [ Thu Mar 25, 2004 13:24 pm ]
Post subject:
So you are saying that no Active Seeker version of the AA-10 will be carried by a Russian SU-27... What about the Chinese? Have they shown an interest in this missile? I know they are building thier own active seeker missile, but you know with their track record on missile development it may never work out... CAG out...

Zephyr Net http://jkpeterson.net/forum/

Insight on R-27AE? http://jkpeterson.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1111	Page 1 of 2

Author:	Centurian57_369th [ Thu Mar 25, 2004 13:51 pm ]
Post subject:
CAG Hotshot wrote: So you are saying that no Active Seeker version of the AA-10 will be carried by a Russian SU-27... What about the Chinese? Have they shown an interest in this missile? I know they are building thier own active seeker missile, but you know with their track record on missile development it may never work out... CAG out... As far as I know the Su-27 Flanker cannot even carry the R-77. The Su-27 is like the F-15A and the Su-30M and other versions are like the F-15C in that they carry the R-77 and the Su-27 doesn't. I was told the Su-27 is strictly AA-10A/B/C/D and R-73 or R-60, whichever. The Su-30 is alike it is the Su-30M and variants, the Su-33, 34, 35, 39, and MiG-29S Fulcrum-C that carry the R-77.

Author:	CAG Hotshot [ Thu Mar 25, 2004 14:51 pm ]
Post subject:
Uhhh Cent, I never asked anything about the R-77...

Author:	Zephyr [ Fri Mar 26, 2004 21:12 pm ]
Post subject:
CAG Hotshot wrote: So you are saying that no Active Seeker version of the AA-10 will be carried by a Russian SU-27... What about the Chinese? Have they shown an interest in this missile? I know they are building thier own active seeker missile, but you know with their track record on missile development it may never work out... CAG out... Swingkid seems to be saying no active Alamo will be carried by the RuAF. Doing some web searches it seems that this missile, R-27AE may actually be designated AA-10 Alamo-E. The Chinese have R-77s, "locally designated R129", and the Su-30MKK can reportedly carry them. The Russians are involved with the PL-12/SD-10 active radar missile so there doesn't seem to be a market for the Ukranian R-27AE there. If/when the RuAF upgrades Flankers to Su-27SM standard, they will be able to carry R-77s. I'm still unsure about the R-27ME, its a SARH version with even more improved range? There don't appear to be any passive radar homing R-27s in service anywhere and they seem to be just a rumor/concept from years ago. Zephyr

Author:	Centurian57_369th [ Fri Mar 26, 2004 23:38 pm ]
Post subject:
Zephyr wrote: Doing some web searches it seems that this missile, R-27AE may actually be designated AA-10 Alamo-E. The Chinese have R-77s, "locally designated R129", and the Su-30MKK can reportedly carry them. The Russians are involved with the PL-12/SD-10 active radar missile so there doesn't seem to be a market for the Ukranian R-27AE there. If/when the RuAF upgrades Flankers to Su-27SM standard, they will be able to carry R-77s. I'm still unsure about the R-27ME, its a SARH version with even more improved range? There don't appear to be any passive radar homing R-27s in service anywhere and they seem to be just a rumor/concept from years ago. Zephyr Yes R-27AE is Alamo-E. The R-27ME Alamo-F is essentially an extended range R-27RE Alamo-C for AWACS, bombers, etc. It's the equivelent of like a minature AIM-54 in its role. While the AA-9 is the equiv. of the AIM-54, the R-27ME is basically like a super-extended range AIM-7. Now as far as the passive stuff, yes that's all rumor. Rumor of a passive R-27, R-77, and AIM-120 have all circulated.

Author:	CAG Hotshot [ Sat Mar 27, 2004 19:39 pm ]
Post subject:
And it does not exist... Has never been built... ranks with the SU-35/37s, MIG 1.42/1.44, and the S-37 Berkut as never going into production... Pure vaporware... and thanks Zephyr for the info on the ARH version and no RuAF use, I can now delete it from FAF... ALso Cent, if the missiles did exist they would no doubt use the same databus as any other vsion of the R-27 and thus be carryable on any SU-27s/MiG-29s... CAG out...

Author:	Centurian57_369th [ Sat Mar 27, 2004 19:52 pm ]
Post subject:
Yes that was an error on my part with the R-27AE on the Su-27. But yep it is vapor, nothing will ever come of the R-27AE/ME. Now what about this R-37? It is in service with the MiG-31M Foxhound-B, no? If so why hasn't NATO designated it yet? It leads me to think that maybe it ISN'T in service.

Author:	Zephyr [ Sun Mar 28, 2004 00:31 am ]
Post subject:
R-37 is designated AA-X-13 and is not in service, as the MiG-31M Foxhound-B is not in service. The MiG-31s in service are: Quote: MiG-31 (Type 01; `Foxhound-A'): Two-seat, all-weather, all-altitude interceptor, able to be guided automatically, and to engage targets, under ground control. Designated MiG-31DZ or MiG-31 01DZ when fitted with AAR probe. Detailed description applies to the above version. MiG-31B (Type 01B Izdeliye 12): Second production and service variant with improved Zaslon-A radar, ECM and EW equipment and with upgraded R-33S missiles. Replaced 01/01DZ in production in late 1990. Avionics upgrade includes A-723 long-range navigation system, compatible with Loran/Omega and Chaika ground stations. MiG-31BS (Type 01BS): Designation applied to Type 01/01DZ when converted to MiG-31B standard. -source is a copy paste from Jane's I think MiG-31 Type 01 carries regular R-33s (maybe called R-33E?), and Type 02 carries the R-33S. The changes to radar, ECM, EW, and R-33 were in response to the compromization to the CIA by one of the top guys at Vympel. Zephyr

Author:	CAG Hotshot [ Sun Mar 28, 2004 19:37 pm ]
Post subject:
100% accurate call there Zephyr... No R-37s in service... No improved Foxhounds either... No $$$ in Russia... SO what is the difference between the R-33E and the R-33S? CAG out...

Author:	Centurian57_369th [ Sun Mar 28, 2004 21:59 pm ]
Post subject:
Yes indeed what is the difference between the R-33E and the R-33S? I imagine the R-33E is the original model or was that an R-33? Damn designations are confoosing.

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