Zephyr Net

Aviation Week is reporting that two versions of the Alamo, the R-27P1 and R-27EP "are in service with the Russian Air Force" and were first fielded in 1989-90.

Highlights:

Their existance was highly classified in Russia until recently. The existance was first confirmed when the Ukraine offered it for export, causing a political problem between Ukraine and Russia. China and India are potential customers. "Hundreds" or "well below 500" missiles were produced. Vympel has expressed interest in making a passive R-77 as a replacement.

The missiles can be used in two modes, one in conjunction with the launch aircraft's radar, one entirely passive with no radar use. The missiles use the 9B-1032 passive seeker. Flight is fully autonomous. The missile is integrated with the MiG-29 and versions of the Su-27. The terminal accuracy of the missile is "comparatively poor," so the primary aim of the missile was to force NATO aircraft to turn off their radars and loose SARH missiles. "Radars fielded on F-15 and F-16 aircraft, along with other Western fighter radars, were the R-27P's primary targets."

If the enemy aircraft turns off its radar the passive Alamo will "lose the target." Max range is 120km/75mi, detection at this range "probably dependent" on the target radar having large side lobes. Towed decoys on NATO aircraft "could be used" to emulate an aircraft's radar, luring away the passive Alamo.

I had to summarize because I can't login to Av Week's website, Kaptor, do you have login trouble?

Also a recent Av Week had a blurb on the "Cope India" exercise, the F-15s used were Alaskan but not AESA equipped, and their large RCS apparently made long range Alamo targetting possible. Also F-15s apparently have IR signatures "3x that of other fighters" whatever that means, so side angle use of the Flanker's IRST was possible at decent ranges.

Zephyr

I got in ok, but I frequently have problems too. Dont look like you left anything out in your synopsis

yeah pretty worthless, 3x's what? an F-5? a MiG-25? This whole exercise sounds like it was rigged from the start.

_________________
Fighting for justice with brains of steel

Let your anger be like the monkey which hides inside the piniata.

THe larger IR signature may have somethign to do with the removal of the turkey feathers from the burner cans, thus allowing more heat exchange directly from the engine can to the fresh air without the gap between the feathers reducing the heat exchange...

As for passive radar air to air, it was proven to be ineffectvie becasue you could power on and off the radar at intervals and still keep contact with your traget, but the attacking passive missile would lose its lock and it could not record your location becasue you are not fixed like a ground radar and thus could no longer intercept you. It was also the reason the USAF/USN collaborated with the improved Sparrow to give it a reaquire capacity so that once its guidance was lost by the radar shutdown it could reaquire the target again once the radr was reactivaed in the mother fighter. However, the advent of the AMRAAM and its active guidance capability eliminated the need for this function on the Sparrow...

CAG out...

a more curious question: if the homer is passive why would the target plane turn off it's radar to break lock with his SARH missle? He wouldent know it was coming right? So why turn off his own radar to lose his lock do defeat a missle he doesnt know is coming? The fact that it is apparantly inaccurate just makes it doubly stupid. Frequency agile RADARs proboly make it obsolete anyway.

Makes more sense to have a VERY fast missle (active or SAHR) so once launched the target would HAVE to break lock and manuever to avoid the incoming missle.

_________________
Fighting for justice with brains of steel

Let your anger be like the monkey which hides inside the piniata.

I already answered this once several days ago... The message was visible then but is now gone...

Zephyr whats going wrong with your forum? I have seen messages dissapearing for a while now(and not just mine)...

Now as to my response...

ANY well trained pilot will expect to be fired upon by opposing fighters if within the range and engagement envelope of its weapons...

Considering that ARH missiles dont give launch warnign now either, its a prudent policy to follow when facing an enemy with such weapons. Only commonsense...

That is why the US Pilots practice so much with denial of launch opportunities to the 'enemy' at Red Flag and Fallon...

CAG out...

Don't know why posts wouldn't be working. Make sure the posts are submitted, don't be hesitent to double post, the extra can always be deleted.

Zephyr