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An FB-22 Appears in China
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Author:  Zephyr [ Mon Dec 27, 2010 18:49 pm ]
Post subject:  An FB-22 Appears in China
The J-20 is allegedly being photographed on the taxiway at Chengdu. My title is in reference to the F-22 style front of this aircraft, with a seemingly elongated fuselage and some delta form wings.

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&newspaperUserId=27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7&plckPostId=Blog%3a27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7Post%3acaf36660-d425-4fbc-a284-008017b2b444&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest

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kind of similar to these renderings:

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Obviously there are some elements of questionable radar signature, like the engine nozzles - similar to the PAK-FA. But would this aircraft have a lower RCS than the PAK-FA in its current form?

There is a rumor that the Russians are providing Saturn 117S engines for this prototype (the engine which powers the Su-35, and may or may not have powered the PAK-FA). The Chinese are working on a higher powered WS-10A derivative, the WS-15, which is years from completion but would presumably power production aircraft to avoid reliance on Russia.
Author:  CAG Hotshot [ Mon Dec 27, 2010 21:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: An FB-22 Appears in China
Nice looking aircraft...

But I have huge doubts about the stealth of the design, as not only the intakes, but the entire enging bays are circular and circular shapes give off great radar returns... Especailly the burner cans...

This aircraft must be oriented to frontal stealth like the F-15SE Silent Eagle...
Author:  KAPTOR [ Tue Dec 28, 2010 03:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: An FB-22 Appears in China
Hmmmmmm.
All I'll say is to point out it has tail strakes, almost universally a solution to an unanticipated design problem.
Author:  hongxing [ Tue Dec 28, 2010 18:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: An FB-22 Appears in China
The canards can't help the stealthiness, either.

Not a competitor to the Raptor. Though if the intended role is FGA, then it could do well filling the specific role: reduced RCS, which is probably something that would sell well.
Author:  ForsakenOutlaw [ Thu Dec 30, 2010 01:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: An FB-22 Appears in China
The PAK FA is a copy of the YF-23 & F-22 and this is a copy of the copy so we know how that'll turn out so I'm sure it'll be a deadly fighter in the skies but are either on the level of the F-22, no. I doubt the Russians are suddenly going to go from the RCS of the Flanker to that of the F-22 without anything in between. They might have analyzed parts from the F-117 but that was old news by then.
Author:  KAPTOR [ Thu Dec 30, 2010 03:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: An FB-22 Appears in China
ForsakenOutlaw wrote:
The PAK FA is a copy of the YF-23 & F-22 and this is a copy of the copy so we know how that'll turn out so I'm sure it'll be a deadly fighter in the skies but are either on the level of the F-22, no. I doubt the Russians are suddenly going to go from the RCS of the Flanker to that of the F-22 without anything in between. They might have analyzed parts from the F-117 but that was old news by then.

PAK FA is just a Flanker with cladding, it's still the basic airframe from the 80's, ONLY a passing resemblance to the 22 and 23. Kinda like those old kit cars that you hung on a Volks frame.
Author:  hongxing [ Mon Jan 03, 2011 12:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: An FB-22 Appears in China
Just to throw the links out here...

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-J-XX-Prototype.html
http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-NOTAM-311210-1.html
Author:  KAPTOR [ Mon Jan 03, 2011 15:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: An FB-22 Appears in China
hongxing wrote:
Just to throw the links out here...

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-J-XX-Prototype.html
http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-NOTAM-311210-1.html

Great links, thanks very much!
Author:  CAG Hotshot [ Tue Jan 04, 2011 02:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: An FB-22 Appears in China
Great links indeed!

I find it very strange that the aircraft was seen to be under going taxi tests while still covered in snow, at the same time the runway was clean...

BTW everyone keeps comparing this to a F-22/F-23 combo, but what I think it really is a just a reworking of the of the old MiG 1.44 with a "stealthy" version of the MiG-31 front end...

MiG-1.44 ...
Image
Image

MiG-31M...
Image

It would make alot of sense for MIG to be working with the Chinese because they are trying desperately to become profitable again after so many MiG-29 order cancelaltions when they were caught substituting old airframes for new construction...
Author:  CAG Hotshot [ Tue Jan 04, 2011 02:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: An FB-22 Appears in China
A better comparison...

Tail end of MiG-1.42/1.44

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Tail end of J/XX

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The Chinese stealth aircraft has the same engine layout and tail layout, just canted for improved stealth over the MiG-1.42/1.44

Sort of like the F-15E vs the F-15SE...
Author:  KAPTOR [ Sat Jan 29, 2011 00:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: An FB-22 Appears in China
Posted some news and pics over at the Wing
http://vnfawing.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=36
Author:  KAPTOR [ Sat Jan 29, 2011 00:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: An FB-22 Appears in China
Anybody care to guess why I find this pic so interesting from an aerodynamics point of view?

Image

BTW
I've seen enough higher rez pics of this thing now that ( for now ) I believe it does in fact have thrust vectoring nozzles.
Author:  CAG Hotshot [ Sat Jan 29, 2011 07:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: An FB-22 Appears in China
Because it looks like it has rotated the tails inwards like the F-117 did when it needed to slow down, but it seems to be doing this on takeoff instead of on landing... Or is this an approach shot?

Also is that an integrated spin chute in the rear or is that a landing chute? If so it seem to be appraoching landing with a very uniquie angle of attack...

(I dont agree on it being truce vectored thrust. If it does hav it its 2D at the most...)
Author:  KAPTOR [ Sat Jan 29, 2011 15:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: An FB-22 Appears in China
Quote:
Also is that an integrated spin chute in the rear or is that a landing chute?

It's a death ray, just in case lol

I'm sure that's a spin chute during testing and will probobly be a braking chute on production aircraft.

The ruddervators are only half the story in that pic.

Also if you open that pic in a proggy and zoom in you will see two rows of sawtooth bands around the engine nacelles and on newer Russian TV engines that area is very smooth, it's certainly do-able on this aircraft right now.
You only need 2D vectoring and once you DO need it you are already in a pickle and won't be worrying about RF signature.
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