Zephyr Net

You are comparing the capacities of the X-35 to the F-22....

The F-35 will have significantly less fuel capacity then the X-35. Due to increased avionics and electronic countermeasures occupying some fo the space now carrying fuel. Lockheed says that on their own site...

Remember the X-35 was not to YF status... The cockpit will be totally different, and military level avionincs/ecm has yet to be designed or incorporated...

I just can not believe that any pilot, related to the F-22 test program, would ever say anything in public that could be quoted that would say anything negative about the Raptor... It would cost him his job and if he was still active service military it would most likely cost him his benefits and a courtmartial... and if he was USN then he never has flown the F-22, as no naval pilots are part of the test program at Edwards...

CAG out...

Maybe he's been brainwashed?

LOL Honestly I can't figure it out either from a logical standpoint. The F-35 has the air to ground capability over the F-22 but the F-22 isn't meant for that. The F-22 is meant to be an air superiority fighter, just like the F-15C. While the F-15C can carry bombs and drop them it would be highly stupid to do so since it accels at the interceptor and fighter role so well. The F-35 would be better suited as a replacement for the AV-8 and a supplement to the F-18 rather than replace what it will in the USAF.

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Centurian

can you post a link to that F-35 LockMart site.

Because the Lockheed.com site says very little about F-35 or JSF.

F-15C is indeed very excellent at the interceptor role, problem is, it rarely has to do much of that anymore in a conflict, after the first few days (if that) it spends most of it's time patroling because nothing will come up to fight it. I'm trying to put together a post about that but cant find the time GRRRRR

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Fighting for justice with brains of steel

Let your anger be like the monkey which hides inside the piniata.

I'll have to dig for the link for you, I read that a few months ago.

But to be honest, LM would shoo tthis guy if he was sayng the JSF was superior to the F-22 when the F-22 is in so much hot water to get finalized for production...

I just cant believe it... (rather I cant believe what you have been told, not that you have been told it, that I dont doubt)

CAG out...

Wait till North Korea my friend. CAP will have a field day!

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Centurian

I doubt the FA-22s will be going to the ANG and Reserves anywhere between 2010-2015 (when the F-35 goes into service).

For such a hefty price, the USAF will want to squeeze the planes' stones until there's no more blood coming out.

Anyway, I agree with whoever said that the F-35 is nowhere close to being able to outperform the FA-22. However, both planes will be able to take out anything else on the market (A projected 10.1 Su-35s would be lost for every 1 FA-22).

The F-15E is going to remain in use until 2015 at least, and I heard plans for the USAF to buy some F-16 Block 52/60s, so we'll just see.

From Jane's:

http://www.janes.com/defence/air_forces/news/idr/idr040416_1_n.shtml

"JSF security technology costing up to US$1bn

By Bill Sweetman

Up to US$1 billion of the projected cost overrun on the Lockheed Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) is attributable to the development of 'anti-tamper' (AT) technology to protect stealth features on the JSF, together with a 'sanitized' and probably less stealthy export configuration of the fighter.

Some of this overrun is reflected in a supplemental contract awarded to Lockheed Martin in November 2003, valued at US$603 million and covering the development of an "international partner version" for the JSF.

Building export JSFs with less sensitive - and less effective - low observable (LO) features is practicable because the primary structure of the JSF is conventional, with most of the LO systems being added at the end of the assembly line. The program office has consistently declined to clarify US policy on this issue, and people close to the program have made conflicting statements.

Most recently, however, a JSF program official said that the export versions "would look the same" - implying that materials under the surface might be different. Another source says that "all JSFs will have stealth features" but will not confirm that all of them will be identical in LO performance. The November contract's reference to an "international partner version" also suggests that such an approach is being taken. The value of the contract would reflect the need to conduct a separate radar cross-section (RCS) validation program.

The clear implication is that the 'international' JSF would have a larger RCS than the US version, would be easier to detect by hostile radars and would consequently be more susceptible to attack. That, in turn, would have consequences for the overall effectiveness of the fighter. Like other LO aircraft, it does not carry active jamming equipment or a towed decoy, and it cannot use high-off-boresight air-to-air missiles when in stealth mode.

JSF is the first US stealth aircraft to be offered for export. Rules on the export of stealth technologies, as well as of dual-use technologies that are important to stealth, are not made by the JSF program office, but by senior Pentagon leaders, who define disclosure policy with the help of the Low Observables Executive Committee (LO-EXCOM). The EXCOM includes representatives from the services, intelligence agencies and all major stealth programs, including 'black' or unacknowledged programs.

The use of less sensitive materials on export JSFs is likely to be accompanied by a range of new AT measures, an area that has received increasing attention since 11 September 2001. The objective is "to protect critical technologies in US weapon systems that may be sold to foreign governments or that could possibly fall into enemy hands".

436 of 1,338 words"

About the red part: Isn't one of the major advantages of an AESA array that it can be used for jamming?

Zephyr

yeah, AESA can be used for sensing (RADAR) jamming , comms and maybee even passive RADAR all virtually at the same time. But the jamming is at a lower power level compared to regular jammers.

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Fighting for justice with brains of steel

Let your anger be like the monkey which hides inside the piniata.

Wouldnt apply here anyway, since the JSF is not slated to get an AESA radar, unless the program requirements have changed?

http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m3125/5_74/83940422/p2/article.jhtml?term=

This was reported in Aviation Week as well.

Zephyr

Wasnt this one of the segments of the project slated for cutting as a cost control? Or was it just its LPI capability slated to be cut?

Cent

I wouldn't be too eager to go to war in East Asia again.

The Chinese would surely support North Korea, and right now, the only things distinguishing the USAF anymore is quantity, high training, willpower, strategy, and persistence.

I'm not up to date on NK's air forces, but it's safe to assume they have MiG-29s if not Su-27s. Plus, China's Su-30s outperform the Eagle in every area.

FAS even reports the the J-8IIM is nearly the F-16C's equal in almost every aspect. (side note: I hope USAF buys some of the F-16E Block 60s).

It's a given that we'd have air superiority, but would we have it at an undue cost?

A study by the British Defense Dept. reported that 1.2 Eagles would be lost for every Su-35 in combat. Though su-30 and 35 aren't the same, they are both superior to F-15. I don't like those odds. Luckily, the same study showed that FA-22 will be able to kill 10 Su-25s for every 1 Raptor lost.

yes except in these areas:
Max speed
Max altitude
sustained G
Gs at altitude
Gs F-15 9-10, Su-30 8.5-9
Empty thrust to weight ratio (by a HUGE margin)
"typicle load" 50% fuel 50% weapons thrust to weight ratios
Empty wing loading (by a HUGE margin)
"typicle load" wing loading
RADAR
RWR
ECM
weapons

but yeah, other than those areas F-15 is dead meat on a stick lol
A closer comparison would be F-15E vs. SU-30 but F-15E STILL leads in all the same catagories, just by a smaller amount than F-15C

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Fighting for justice with brains of steel

Let your anger be like the monkey which hides inside the piniata.

Is there a significant difference betwen the Su-30 and the Su-30MK that I am missing?

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AIM120S - The Electrician

KAP

I was just going by what FAS says.

Go here: http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-15.htm

In the paragraph next to the animated F-15 GIF.

(This one)

The F-15C has an air combat victory ratio of 95-0 making it one of the most effective air superiority aircraft ever developed. The US Air Force claims the F-15C is in several respects inferior to, or at best equal to, the MiG-29, Su-27, Su-35/37, Rafale, and EF-2000, which are variously superior in acceleration, maneuverability, engine thrust, rate of climb, avionics, firepower, radar signature, or range.

Although the F-15C and Su-27P series are similar in many categories, the Su-27 can outperform the F-15C at both long and short ranges. In long-range encounters, with its superior radar the Su-27 can launch a missile before the F-15C does, so from a purely kinematic standpoint, the Russian fighters outperform the F-15C in the beyond-visual-range fight.

The Su-35 phased array radar is superior to the APG-63 Doppler radar in both detection range and tracking capabilities. Additionally, the Su-35 propulsion system increases the aircraft’s maneuverability with thrust vectoring nozzles. Simulations conducted by British Aerospace and the British Defense Research Agency compared the effectiveness of the F-15C, Rafale, EF-2000, and F-22 against the Russian Su-35 armed with active radar missiles similar to the AIM-120 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile (AMRAAM). The Rafale achieved a 1:1 kill ratio (1 Su-35 destroyed for each Rafale lost). The EF-2000 kill ratio was 4.5:1 while the F-22 achieved a ratio of 10:1. In stark contrast was the F-15C, losing 1.3 Eagles for each Su-35 destroyed.





The US Air Force is stated as having claimed that the F-15C is inferior to the Su-27P series in many areas. If I'm not mistaken, the Su-27P series is the Su-30 series.

I'm not saying that they must be correct, but I don't know many other places to look for accurate info than FAS.

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AIM120S - The Electrician