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 Post subject: Harriers
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2003 15:24 pm 
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Can they carry Paveway smart bombs?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2003 16:44 pm 
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Yes they can. Some can carrier a laser pod too so that it can designate or have a ground crew designate.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2003 15:58 pm 
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but no JDAMs yet for Harrier, Generally one plane flies with the pod and 1 large bomb, and the other planes in the section carry more and smaller bombs(LGBs that is)

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2003 21:12 pm 
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ANything can drop a JDAM. The co-ord's are prog. before flight. Not every plane needs to change them in flight necessarily.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2003 21:39 pm 
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yeah, JDAMs are just dumb bombs with GPS attached.......

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2003 00:18 am 
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I'm trying to find the article but there's a bit more to it than just dropping a JDAM with pre-programed co-ordinates, there has to be a NAV interface for one thing.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2003 22:30 pm 
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From Av_week:
Quote:
After more than a decade of upgrading its AV-8B Harriers and several years of serious readiness woes, the U.S. Marine Corps hopes the air war against Iraq will validate the multimillion-dollar spending that's allowing the aircraft to execute complex strike and reconnaissance missions.

Despite multimillion-dollar investments in Harrier upgrades, the short-takeoff strike aircraft still lacks an all-weather, precision bombing capability.
But several key warfighting capabilities long sought by the Marines still have not jelled because of a funding shortfall and development problems with the mission computer upgrade. The enhancements would introduce a Mil-Std-1760 data bus and allow Harriers to deliver GPS-guided Joint Direct Attack Munitions (JDAMs).

Without the upgrades, the Harriers would lack the ability to deliver near-precision ordnance in inclement weather. Marine aviators worry that sandstorms or smoke created by fires from sabotaged oil wells could obscure the battlefield and encumber the use of laser-guided bombs.

ALSO, FOR AIR-TO-AIR combat, AV-8Bs are still limited to using short-range, heat-seeking AIM-9 Sidewinders, even though service representatives several years ago urged integration of the medium-range AIM-120 Amraam. The radar-guided missile has already been integrated on other Harriers, such as those operated by Spain, which are being moved to the Middle East, a Marine AV-8B pilot noted. To use Amraam, U.S. Harriers also would have to upgrade the software for the APG-65 radar.

F-14s also had to be modded for carriage of JDAMs

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2003 10:36 am 
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What issue is that article from? Its wrong... USMC funding was already approved years ago for 27 new and 72 rebuilt AV8B+ upgrades and half the fleet have already been upgraded by Boeing and now do carry the slammers and are now JDAM compatible. That article has a liberal slant to it. THey are only talking about the remainder of AV-8Bs which will most likely not be upgraded to + standard due to the expected F-35B entrance to the Corp. and the fact that the remaining Harriers will be upgraded for passive infared night fighting... So there will be two types of Harriers in the fleet...


From Military Updates Tracker

The AV-8B+ featured other modifications as well, such as the addition of a Sidewinder launch rail on the outrigger landing gear fairing. This idea, as will be explained, was invented by the British for their Harrier IIs, and gave the aircraft nine effective stores pylons. The AV-8B+ also has a distinctive lengthened ram-air intake at the base of its tailfin.

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27 Harrier II Plus new-build aircraft have been produced for the USMC, with 72 upgrades from older types to be delivered through 2003. The Marines have been trying to find the money for some additional upgrades for attrition replacements. The upgrades have been somewhat painful to fund, as their cost is a major fraction of that of a new build AV-8B+. Fortunately, the effort has been somewhat simplified by the fact that the F/A-18 Hornet has been receiving an upgrade to the even-better AN/APG-73 radar set, allowing the Harrier upgrades to use refurbished AN/APG-65s.

In 2000, the AV-8B Program Office announces a series of "Open System Core Avionics Requirement (OSCAR)" upgrades to allow carriage of new weapons and systems on the AV-8B+, beginning with the AMRAAM; followed by the "Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM)" GPS-guided bomb; and then, down the road, the "AIM-9X" advanced Sidewinder follow-on with "off-boresight" targeting capability; the "AGM-154 Joint Standoff Weapon (JSOW)" standoff glide bomb; a helmet-mounted sight to cue the AIM-9X and other munitions; a "Link 16" datalink; and potentially other weapons and systems.


From the Boeing site itself..

AV-8B Harrier II Plus
The Harrier II Plus is the latest offspring and most advanced variant in the combat proven Harrier family of short takeoff - vertical landing (STOVL) tactical aircraft. While its four rotating nozzle, direct lift configuration can trace its roots back to the unmatched innovations of the Hawker P.1127, the aircraft of today carries the operationally proven APG-65 radar system, a host of third generation technology and weapons that make it truly multi-mission capable.

The Harrier II Plus has a formidable arsenal of air-to-air weapons as well as the extraordinary capability in air-to-surface missions for which the AV-8B Harrier II is known. In addition to a 25mm rapid-fire Gatling gun and heat-seeking Sidewinder missiles for close in engagements, the aircraft also carries an advanced beyond visual range air-to-air missile, the AIM-120 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile, or AMRAAM. The air-to-surface capabilities have also expanded to include a digital targeting data link, Global Positioning System, the Litening II Targeting Pod system and the capability to employ the next generation of precision guided munitions including the Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM). The aircraft is powered by the 23,500-pound thrust Rolls-Royce Pegasus 11-61 (F402-RR-408) engine to give the Harrier II Plus a multi-mission punch.

The Harrier II Plus was developed through a three-nation agreement among the United States, Spain and Italy. The U.S. Marine Corps procured 27 Harrier II Plus aircraft, the Italian navy procured 16 Harrier II Plus aircraft and two TAV-8B aircraft, and the Spanish navy procured eight Harrier II Plus aircraft.

In an effort provide Fleet Marines the most capable Harrier available, the U.S. Marine Corps launched the Harrier II Plus Remanufacture Program in 1994. Seventy-four day-attack Harrier IIs already in the fleet are being converted into the more capable Harrier II Plus aircraft with a renewed service life. The remanufacture will cost the Marine Corps significantly less than purchasing all-new aircraft. In addition, the Spanish Navy has joined the program to remanufacture five of its day-attack Harrier II’s aircraft. Combined with the Harriers already in service, this fleet will serve the USMC, Spanish Navy and Italian Navy well into the 21st Century.

The Boeing Company, BAE Systems and Rolls Royce originally teamed to produce the AV-8B, Harrier II as a major upgrade to the AV-8A, Harrier I. The first production AV-8B aircraft was delivered in November 1983. Deliveries of night-attack Harrier IIs began in September 1989. The U.S. Marine Corps received its first Harrier II Plus aircraft in July 1993, and its first remanufactured Harrier II Plus in January 1996.

The Harrier II Plus is in service today with the United States Marine Corps, the Spanish Navy and the Italian Navy. This V/STOL tactical aircraft delivers the legendary unmatched basing flexibility that other fixed-wing aircraft cannot match. It also provides the user a broad selection of weapons and technology to meet many diverse tactical scenarios. The Harrier II has demonstrated operational effectiveness and flexibility in Operation Desert Storm, Operation Southern Watch, Operation Allied Force and Operation Enduring Freedom


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2003 13:16 pm 
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I was told a long ways back on the old old board that the Harrier *could* carry AMRAAMs.

Obviously only one story is fact- what I've heard on the FARC, or that article.

And I have a feeling what I've heard on the FARC is the fact.........

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2003 14:46 pm 
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Yes the AV-8B+ can carry the AMRAAM. However, nobody lists the AV-8 as a carriagable a/c.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2003 14:51 pm 
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My article is from either this week or 2 weeks ago ( I didnt get last weeks issue and will be placing a call about that tommorow). We both know that "facts" from the metal benders are something less than totaly believable sometimes due to marketing and salesmanship. It's unclear from the MUT article wheather those updates have reached the fleet yet or not, and the opines in the article I posted seem to be more whining about them not being avaiable right now when they need them. I havent seen any pics yet of US Harriers with JDAMs or AMRAAMs, and they seem to be relying on Hornets for that right now, with the AV-8s doing the LASER bombing.
Bigs, do Harriers carry AMRAAMs or not? Yeah the answer is they do but so far(?) ONLY the Briitish versions. The UK Harriers have carried AMRAAMs for quite a while now(several years), got pictures of that :lol: they're usually (always?) carried on the fusalage on pylons that replace the LID strakes on the belly, but they have to give up the gun to have the 2 AMRAAMs there. Geeze, I need to get up to the news group, I bet IF there ARE pics that they have been there already :-((

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2003 20:57 pm 
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Hate to break it to ya Kap... No UK Harriers carry AMRAAM anymore... They were forced by the MoD to retire their Sea Harriers and replace them with GR-7s flown by RAF pilots... Yes I know it makes no freakin sense, but the Brits always have been idiots... Nothing like getting rid of the only effective weapon you have at sea! And replacing it with something equivilent that what you flew in 1982 in the Falklands! The GR-7s can only carry sidewinder also! And they have salt water/air issues!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 00:44 am 
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actually I was wondering about that very thing CAG, I knew the sea Harriers had the Blue Fox RADAR for cueing the AMRAAMs(dont know if that ever got upgraded) and I knew the newer GRs had no RADAR. I remember the Harriers all being folded into one "Harrier force" for RAF and RNAF but didnt know if they kept any of the Sea Harriers around. Oh well I guess when the fog rolls in ( good thing they dont have any of that in Europe :roll: ) the British air componants will all have to rely on Tornado.

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 Post subject: re: Sea Harriers
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 00:56 am 
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Quote:
They were forced by the MoD to retire their Sea Harriers and replace them with GR-7s flown by RAF pilots


IIRC this has not happend yet but will be done around ~2006.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 11:54 am 
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http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/static/pages/172.html

Read this crap put out by the MoD... I guess they figured that they no longer had to look after their own ships. What wouldhappen if the Argies grabbed the Falklands again? The US would not provide them 'outer aircover' and they would be evenly matched this time, as they would both be operating in an all IR environment, with the Argies now having the same winders as the Brits.

I also guess they forgot to think of intercepting fighters with BVR capable missiles engaging their inbound strike force GR-9s...

What a pathetic excuse for a Defense Ministry...


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