Zephyr Net

READY FOR AN OCTOBER SURPRISE ?

This is a re-hash of this subject,
and yet another chance to "place your bets".
Because there just may be an October surpise comeing,
just in time to ice the election for BUSH.
I'm not implieing that it was planned that way,
but that's just the way things worked out.
I've held the opinion that Osama is dead, and has been for some time.
The fact that he has not been seen or heard from since the TORA-BORA
Campaign that he was critically injured there and subsaquently
died from complications from his wounds and lack of treatment for his liver condition.

I also believe his remains where moved to the valley in Saudi Arabia
where Mohammed is burried and his remains are effectively being
protected by the Saudi's,
since the area has extremely limited access to westerners.

Whats your opinion ?

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"cool beanz"
D. "FETCH" Jordan

If Osama was wheeled out within 2 weeks of the election I will not be shocked nor will I believe that they just caught him.

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Centurian

Oh How I wish that he would be in my guest room! I even voted for this option but All that is roomed there are my 3 Guitars and piles of my moms Lawyer's Reading.
Can you Imagine myself callin the US consulate in Rio claiming for my 25 million dollars reward? Gosh I don´t even know what to do with such money!
But who the heck would come to pick Usama? those two marines that are always using the consulate cars to go to night clubs? well I think that for 25 million dollars I could drag him down there

btw.. WTF is Kool-aid!?

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"History is written by the winners"
Robert McNamara

Kool-Aid .... is a popular drink mix commonly drank by mostly children.
Used in the context of political discussions "Kool-Aid People" is a popular term used to discribe extremeist nutts on both sides be it left or right. Those people discribed as being "Kool-Aid" people generally are without comprimise and only see things one way and generally use everything to support their already contribed views.

I.E.
Facts mean nothing to the "Kool-Aid" people (probably some of your teachers could be concidered "Kool-Aid" people").

But please remember this, there are "Kool-Aid People" on both sides niether the left or right have a monopoly on stupidity and narrow-mindedness.

P.S.
leo ... the fact that you took my little poke at you in stride and thought about the monitary reward for Osama that's out there shows you are not only intellegant but just maybe a capitalist, there is much hope for you yet.
TOUCHE
Good come back, I thought it was funny when I did it, now it seems a little childish on my part, I appologise.

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"cool beanz"
D. "FETCH" Jordan

Fetch do you remember this is the same person who was gung-ho Anarchy? Intelligent because he poked fun? Nigh sir. The fact that he'd turn him in to get the $25M is in fact the opposite of anarchy. It just goes to show that Leo/GT/Outlaw/Da Big have NFC what personality they are at any given time and are confusing them.

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Centurian

Oh brother.. I used to have a punk rock band then and Punks think this kind of rebel shit..
It happens in my family.. Daddy is addicted to The Beatles and John Lennon (an Anrchist) buyng all kind oh sheet from them..
This anarchy thing is rethoric.. I´ve seen it in my Sociology class Impossible as Karl Marx (I know he wrote the commie manifest) says into his work "The Capital" that capitalism has this tendency of overruning other kinds of productive means.. and in my western Political thought class I learned that the right of to own private property is the base of capitalism and that the right to defend your life (or the right to bear a gun) is considered a "Natural Right" by the great political thinkers... so thoug Marx figured out some truths about the capitalist system, that BS that he wrote: "Proletariate of the World Unite", won´t take place...

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"History is written by the winners"
Robert McNamara

You still skirt the thing. You were a full supporter of anarchy prior to this last visit spree. It's okay, we understand how hard it is. BTW Marx did make a very nice utopia and it would be a great one at that. But Marx's biggest mistake, more than anything, was that he was too naive to include human nature.

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Centurian

I can not add to any string that includes discission of Marxisum without recalling the phrase ...
"usefull idiots"
And also be reminded that he formulated that there is a monitary threshold that once crossed that they will follow.
In todays world I would say that is an average per cappa income of $2000 per year income.
So what I'm saying is ...
When the average income of of any Nation falls below $2000 per year (in todays world) then total anarchy is not only a possibility but is all but unavoidable.

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"cool beanz"
D. "FETCH" Jordan

This per capita thing is fucked up fecth (sorry for the bad words) but I know it because in Brazil 5% of the Population is absurdly rich but 40 % lives below the misery Line.
and the Anarchy that John Lennon was talking about is one that nationalism and religion (major cause of conflicts to this line of thinking) woud cease to exist. They are in fact peace lovers that dumbly attack the excuses of great conflicts (BTW Forrest Gump passed this Idea to him on that great soundtrack film).

I have completely abandoned the line of thinking when I started to get this "War and Peace" class at college. I readed John Keegan "a History of Warfare" (War is Culture) and "Strategy in the contemporary world" chapter 3 - John Garnet "the causes of war and conditions of peace" and I realized that States and Criminal Organizations makes the wars that those ppl complain so much about.. if you think that human nature is a good point to explain war causes? John Keegan seems to have this Approach. John Garnett prefer to analyze the role of Power contest in wich States get involved.

But Thucydides in my opinion is the best one

the man wrote the first International Relations work about the
Peloponnesian Wars 2400 years ago .. Then we wrote the Theory of Hegemonic war in wich he states that changes in the International system power balance caused the war between Athens and Sparta and that the history would repeat itself because he had realised that is in the human nature to be driven by three major passions: Interest, Pride and specially Fear. The Reason, he stated, would only make mankind realize that it could not escape from beign driven by their passions. So when a Nation who used to be under the sphere of Influence of the Hegemon raises with new Ideas, Ideologies, Pruductive means and then consequently new national power(like Athens) the former hegemon(Sparta) would feel it and be afraid of it so the system would get Bipolarized and then less powerful nations would choose their sides (for interest or ideology) and the the two blocks would get involved in a Hegemonic war.
Robert Gilpin used the Thucydides theory to explain the 30 years religious wars (1618-1648 France -Richelieu vs. Holy Roman Empire- Habsburgs)
the Napoleonnic wars and the 1st WW (considering the 2nd WW as beign the same war).

Its a very interesting theory because when you get a random International system that once took place in history you can analyze it without personal judge of who was right or who was wrong.. i.e. The cold war Bipolar system.. that was an bid for hegemony in wich both sides fought with everything they could (not direct conflict because Nuclear Deterrence was in the game) and when you get this analysis of it, Both sides convinced their population that they were just, better or right but in fact (following this theory) they were just fighting for supremacy over the System. and all that BS that Democracy is the best thing to mankind or that communism is Just because everyone gets the same results for collective work was only consequence of the power contest. So I came to a conclusion that what drives human beigns to conflict is not Economy as Karl Marx stated but Power as thucydides wrote.. but then my "War and Peace" teacher said: "what about the Buddist ppl?" Gosh I dunno.. Oh teachers.. they just love to kill our conclusions!

But I do know that is very good thing to talk with ppl that has this kind of specific academic knowledge that have grown with different values.. In my University ppl are just too leftist (just like me they were influenciated by former High School leftist History/Geopolitics Teachers) and when I try to state that US national homeland terrorism paranoia is not only bush Imperialism but National Defense Strategy they say that I am Right Wing Neo-con.. or a war lover.. Shit! what do they know about Society analizes!? those Marxists claim that workers are the same everywhere in the world! Hell No!

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"History is written by the winners"
Robert McNamara

Read by Keyes - The Implications of the Treaty of Versailles

It will tell you everything you need to know about human nature...

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Centurian

I´ll read it for sure man!
The Versailles treaty is that one that took place after the 1st WW and wich is wide known for giving the german people the ultrajant conditions that led Fascism to reach power in Germany.
I am sure that Tank can tell us more on that later

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"History is written by the winners"
Robert McNamara

You have it mislead again. Fascism was in Italy before Germany with Mussolini. It simply spread to Germany. The Treaty of Versailles screwed over Germany so bad. The Veimer Republic, which it essentially set up, was so weak. Germany was doing alright but then once the Depression hit, something that cost 5 pieces of (forgot the monetary unit at the time) became 500,000. The Treaty of Versailles didn't help the situation either for what it stripped Germany of. And Woodrow Wilson could have stopped it but instead he sold out to France (who was basically behind the full wronging of Germany [they got their justice didn't they] to get his stupid League of Nations, which the US didn't even join). Remember Germany signed an Armistace not a doctrine of defeat. World War II is essentially World War I continued. But at least Germany stuck it to the French right away. It's a shame they had to be stripped of all that but hey, it happens.

So who's up for giving France back to Germany?

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Centurian

You know, leo reminds me of a few family members of mine, and a teacher or two. All intelligent, but you can tell they have some doctrine in their head that aint quite right....

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I fail to see the intelligence, its just spitting out what his teachers say word for word without any change.

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Centurian

LMAO yeah or that too... I'll let what he says stand for itself...[/quote]

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