Zephyr Net

Hey guys. I've just got some info for you. I've been going through this forum and have found a lot of anti-canada stuff. First and foremost, I am a Canadian and I speak for a lot of us Northerners. You no doubt heard of Canada's unwillingness to support the invasion of Iraq, how we broke a hundred-year alliance to appease terrorists and the UN. Also, you must have heard of the way people speak of the United States up here (as stupid, ignorant, bloodthirsty savages). I (and many other Canadians) are disgusted by the stupid actions of our government. Their ineptidude and willingness to appease our enemies by destroying our long friendship with the US has branded our entire country as lazy, anti-american beer drinkers. Our CBC media (which, belive it or not, is a government run TV and radio news network), only lets us see certain events in the world, and these are ones that portray America in a negative light. However, I know that many, many Canadians still love and respect the USA despite the daily media and social pressure to be anti-american. So when you bash Canada on this forum, just remember that its our government and media that have destroyed our countries' political relationships. Though I cannot claim that we have a "silent majority" of pro-US Canadians anymore, it is because most people have been brainwashed by our media and lied to by our government. Thanks guys, and God Bless America (and its Canadian friends).

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-If you want to kick the tiger in the ass, you'd better have a plan for dealing with his teeth-Jack Ryan Jr.

Canada has a 3,000 mile long unprotected border with US. To me that just invites invasion. Besides, NY will invade NJ and Canada and declare the Empire of New York, which will one day extend to the four corners of the globe!

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Centurian

What I think matters not.
What you think matters not.
The simple fact his that metaphorically speaking ...
When Caesar offered his hand, you refused it.
If you Canadians haven't figured it out yet, you are, and will continue to, again metaphorically speaking, "Die a death of many small blades".
The Omni theoretical, everybody gets along, let's talk or sanction, world that the "Internationalist" want to create just won't operate. They are reverse engineering the damn impedient system the USSR tried to operate. It won't work on fucking paper!
There must be a strong Trunk on any tree, to support strong independent branches.
At some point someone must stand and make an accounting.
Freedoms debt must be paid.
In Roman times it usually meant the first republic standing against theocracies and kingdoms.
Now it's for our freedom we fight, and yours, not just the Iraqi's. It's just in Iraq for example.
The statement WILL be made that we will meet the threat to any encroaching counter system that runs head on into our belief that all men are created equal.
Here, there, anywhere.
Again that's the way it is, it always has been, and always must be.
As long as there is to be a Western civilization.
Korea.
Vietnam.
They each had purpose.
Has history not taught the lesson of not meeting the barbarians in hender lands.
Only a fool lets the hoard gather at the gates.

It's not personal.
I.E. what I think of you or your fellow Canadians.
Or what you believe of me that matters.
In the long term the damage is a self inflected wound on yourself.
So Caesar, a metaphor for civilization, the western world, is merciful, and at any point you as a Country reaches out for Caesar's hand you will be given a chance to redeem yourselves.
These words in their logic, historical background, may upset any little insect of an man that roams this Earth, but it's just the way it is. The way it always will be. The way it always has been as long as working western economies are expected to survive. And when it is not Civilization itself as we understand it will cease to be.
If for every American you try to take you message, you try to convince 10 fellow Canadians that in the simple belief by our enemies that human democratic rights will be defended by those that would seek their demise, then you are on the right track. Because that in a nut shell is why we did it, whatever IT you seek a justification for.
Thinking people know that although tested in some quarters, the relationship between our two countries has actually gotten stronger. In ways that you and I don't known and are not suppose to.
But economically you really have bitten the hand, and you will, and simply must eventually recognize the folly of some of your countries policies.
Just look at Scandinavia, and Europe in general. maybe Germany to some extent it the only hold out.
But the norm is nobody works their ass off in the private sector.
They get taxed so much it works out better to be lazy instead of busting your nutts to get ahead.
The dream there has died.
They strive for little.
They individually achieve almost nothing.
The numbers and clock are against them, they have become Nations of pensioners.
And on average people there work 32hr a week or less.
And have 35 to 45 days a year off as holidays.
They just plain old fashion are not hard workers anymore.
Who will deliver Canada from itself?
Once upon a time I would not hesitate to reply ...
The Canadian's will.
But boy it harder to mustard up them words these days, but that is of your doing. Your hardest work lies right there where you are. Not in America. We never give up on anybody, anywhere, we do still maintain our faith and willingness to fight. Even for you. To this very day. To the very death.
Why bash Canada?
Some on the extreme right might, I haven't. But I have made references to the sacrifices of the Veterans of Canadians' past. And wondered what do the few that remain think.
It's just hard as hell to, from here to watch a proud strong working Country I.E. economy that was built from nothing by your forefathers just self destruct. And realize that in the end there is nothing we can do. It's your party up there.

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"cool beanz"
D. "FETCH" Jordan

We do have a lot of problems with our social and government infrastructure up here. But the simple truth is our Liberal government has been in power for so long they have become totally corrupt, imposing more and more laws on Canadians. Believe me when I say I'm not happy with my country's gov't. The problems we have up here are huge Fetch, just like you said. I really don't hold much hope for a major social revolution, as most of our people have grown soft and complacent. Our social system if a failure, "free healthcare" has resulted in major hospital problems, such as a severe lack of beds. I know hospitals where patients have been forced to wait in halls for beds. Our media portrays desructive lifestyles (such as homosexuality) as perfectly normal. Our country's top politicians have all recently been implicated in a massive scandal as they have lined their pockets and bribed MPs with taxpayers money that was supposed to go towards revitalizing our healthcare system and re-equipping our military. Our politicans have destroyed our country's sense of self-worth.

I thank you for your comments Fetch (although I frankly don't know what you are talking about Centurian, but thanks anyways ). So now If I could have you all send e-mails to the president begging him to invade Western Canada, where all the Pro-America Canadians are, and there would be much celebration as Abrams and Bradelys rolled through the streets of Vancouver. I'll be waiting at the border with flowers and other such things.

Keep the comments coming, This topic is being viewed by many of my friends up here. Rock on.

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-If you want to kick the tiger in the ass, you'd better have a plan for dealing with his teeth-Jack Ryan Jr.

I really do believe that Canada will someday start to drift back more toward a capitalist society.
Mostly because you have so much to work with up there vs some smaller countries without the resources and growth potential.
And what is needed up there is the same thing we could use more of here to.
Republic Nationalism.
Independent with working, I.E. at the very least expanding economies. And open markets. "Open Markets" commonly misinterpreted means an open stock market an exchange.
Do you really think the powers that be, the men with the purse strings give a hoot about the price of the cheeseburger your trying to peddle in commie China and if it's fare.
Gimmie a break, as long as there is a half way on the up and up market for the big guys to roll the dice and may hit the jackpot, they will toss the dice.
It should be Canada first ..... in Canada.
And America first here. A strong sense of Nationalism is healthy. All this Global village shit is baloney. It wont work.
I really don't know how things work up there in Canada, but in America since it is a capitalistic society we vote most powerfully with our wallets.
Don't believe me, just hang tight and get you goodbyes ready for Air America. It's toast, loosing money hand or fist. We'll see just how deep it's supporter pockets really are. They absolutely will not last till next election. They are down to 40 markets. Have no sponsors.
That's just one example.
If there is a political propaganda medium you want to impact just boycott their advertisers.
One thing you are better than us at is the control of emigration. Don't get me wrong we need them, a lot of them. They are the low wage engine that drives the damn thing.
And it always has been that way, and it always will. As long as western industrial societies are expected to survive.
The thing that gives an open capitalistic society the edge is that with hard work and discipline, or maybe just an earth chattering ideal a person can work his way up from the bottom. Hard work pays.
But at least you keep track of them so maybe you can hammer them with some tax burden. Geeze that's why we need a guest worker program. For just an instant think or the tax revenue.
I believe the trend will start when America starts deployment of a real practical ABMS. Now most of the world raggs on us for slowly pushing ahead, or at the least are keeping the engineering capabilities. Again in my opinion I think by 2025 events and technology will change the political landscape and will create the out cry as to why we don't have an anti missile system almost overnight. The same tinkerbells that are bitching now and say stupid shit like ... that's aggressive and will make the enemies seek weapons and mass weapons in response. Suddenly they change their colors and start bitching as to why such an advanced scientific civilization could not make such a thing. Go figure. And that's just the way it is .... yadda yadda yadda ... and always will be.


And then there will be much manufacturing.
And ton's of public money will be used for high end military projects creating many good jobs. We'll need lots of this and that we will buy from you, you will buy from us. We will build and populate and so it will continue.
Sad but true, in 2025 there still be poor starving people on the Earth.
There always will be, ..... yadda yadda yadda.
And when the Nations that have resources, motivated workers, realize that the countries pushing all this global community BS are just trying to set themselves up as the administrator of the richer countries hard work to distribute it to all, making a big deal about the poorest of the poor, and getting their little cut. To prop up their subsidized industries because they are lazy and weak and can't openly compete with the aggressive capitalist economies.
And just like the USSR, it will all fall down, as the powerhouse economies peel off and leave the have nots behind.

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"cool beanz"
D. "FETCH" Jordan

It is too bad Canada has become a socialist country and turned its back on one its long time ally, the US. It is a shame that they have forgotten the scriface of thousands of US airmen, sailors, soldiers, and marines who fought and died In WWII and other wars to protect their way of life. They remind me of the FRENCH. Their country was taken back by AMERICAN blood mile by mile. So they vandalize, the graves of US heroes who died in their country.

One of my Dad's favorite sayings is " They made thier bed, let them sleep in it! I hope THEIR military can defend THEIR country and no more Americans die in defense of people who have forgotten their friends and lost site of democracy.

Pappy

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Tally Ho Pappy's In!

Just for the record Pappy, Canadian military personnel fought and died for our country and our freedom in WW2. Aswell as WW1, the Korean war, and the Vietnam war, just to name a few. Our military is a very proud and honored force who have done extrodinary things without proper funding, equipment, leadership or, in some cases, public backing. So befor saying that we have been "protected" through history by the USA, maybe take a glance a history and get your facts strait. That being said, I agree that our foreign policy has lately been somewhat "frenchish". It's a shame we have polititians in power right now who ar to worried about their image than doing whats right. Personally I think you guys did good getting Hussein out of Iraq. Someone who causes so much suffering doesn't deserve to control the fates of so many people.

Goshawk
I have great respect for the military, yours and especially ours. It can also be said that US forces preform hard and difficult tasks daily understaffed, under supplied and appreciated. I know that Canadians have fought and died next to American troops in WWI, WWII, Korea,
the Cold War, and in Operation Enduring Freedom.

Educate me about Canada's involvement in the Vietman War. What Canadian units were deployed to Vietman? Was Canada a member of CETO, Southeast Asia Treaty Organization?

My comments were directed to your current administration and its current foreign policy. I appreciate your comments about Iraq. I hope others in Canada and the world share your feelings.


Pappy

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Tally Ho Pappy's In!

No units were deployed that i know of, however many Canadian's joined US military units. There was a show about it on the history channel up here recently, but I don't remember alot of details. But I think i'll dig a little 'cause it piqued my interest somewhat.

It is a sad era right now when the military is show in the light it has recently. The only stuff that tends to hit the news is negative and in some cases totaly disrespectfull to those who put themselves at risk on a daily basis to make sure that all of us can enjoy our corner of the world without the fear of losing ones home, or way of life.

I found a really good site which sums up some of the Canadian involvment in Vietnam, including a medal of honor winner.
http://home.earthlink.net/~emopam/webdoc26.htm

Gosshawk
Thanks for the reply and link. I will check it out. I had no idea Canadians joined up during Vietman to help us. I know many Americans enlisted in WWI and WWII to fight for Canada before we entered the wars.

You have it wrong though, atleast here in the US, the military and military personnel are well respected. Remember 911, our first heroes were the firemen, police and the passengers on that plane they took back it from the bad guys. The kids in Iraq and Afghan are now our heroes.

Anyway it has been a pleasure to met you. I love Canadian bacon on my pizza and I used to like Molsen ale when I drank.

Pappy

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Tally Ho Pappy's In!

It's really hard sometimes to tell how respected your military is, especially with the way the media is sometimes. I know by alot of the post on this site how respected the US military is by most of the people who post here, I was merly making an observation based one some of the stuff I've seen in the media from both sides of the border. It's not all bad, definately not as bad as during Vietnam, but it has been somewhat negative after the Iraq invasion. Especially with the questions over WMD's. I still think they were right to go in, even if Iraq had none.

I agree totally about the heros of 9/11. Without them, who knows how many would have died that day.

mmmmmmmmmmmmm, bacon

Gosshawk
The Iraqs had the research, materials, and intent to build WMD's. Everyones intell said they had them up and ready before Iraq Freedom. Either everyones intell services were dead wrong or the Iraqs moved them to Syria, Iran or even NK. I would like to believe that latter which means we will face them in the future.

We did catch them with some chemical wep shells and using prohibited longer range Scud missles against our troops in Kuwait.

Iraq was a example lesson for Libyia. They surrender all of their WMD's after OIF. Not bad, not bad at all.

Pappy

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Tally Ho Pappy's In!

Whether Iraq had WMD or not still can't be proven. Remember, we haven't found shit. Because we haven't found shit we can't prove shit. It wasn't everyone's intel that said they had them just before OIF because if it was they would have gotten involved. That's one thing they would have done. Unfortunately, whilst I think they exported them out to Libya (which was probably turned into the US when Libya said 'we give up') and Syria, we can't prove shit. Remember unless you can show the evidence to your claims they are invalid so until we produce WMD in Iraq they don't exist there. It sucks I know but hey...

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Centurian

Centurian, man you are so damn right about that. I'll bet while President Bush was battling way wit the UN for months to get their support for a so-called "legitimate invasion" (as the UN put it) Saddam probably just called up the Ayatollah and asked "Hey, the US is going to invade us soon. Be a good Islamic brother and let me send my WMDs and mobile nuclear facilities into your country. you can have them for free." I'll bet their tucked away in some cave in the Zagros mountains. If anyone questions this, How about the First Gulf War, where half the Iraqi air force flew into Iran, and not one SAM was launched at them? Remember Iran and Iraq had just fought a long and dirty war just a few years before. Why suddenly did they give the Iraqi air force a free flight into their country? There's an underlying connection between all Islamic countries cause of their religion. So whenever a common enemy (such as the US) attacks one country, all the others covertly support and supply the other. That prolly explains the hundreds of foreign insurgents in Iraq. Al Zaqarwi is Jordinian, after all, and lots of the other insurgents are Iranian and Syrian.

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-If you want to kick the tiger in the ass, you'd better have a plan for dealing with his teeth-Jack Ryan Jr.

You'll notice one thing about insurgent movements, especially after studying Chechnya. Most of the insurgent leaders are not from the actual country they are fighting in and are fighting for their own cause, not the cause of the country. In Chechnya, the original cause was independence from Russia. Now it has evolved into a pan-Caucasus Islamic Republic. It never ceases to amaze me that these people put up with this. If a non-New Yorker came into NY and told us what we ought to do and what we ought to fight for, we'd hang his ass in Times Square.

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Centurian