Zephyr Net

hey guys. Seriously check out this link then e-mail it to all your friends and their friend's friends. This is what people out there need to remember. THis could really start a pro War on Terrorism rejuvenation, I hope, so please pass it on for me in the US. Thanks, and God REALLY Bless America.

here it is: http://www.flashplayer.com/music/haveuforgotten.html

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-If you want to kick the tiger in the ass, you'd better have a plan for dealing with his teeth-Jack Ryan Jr.

You know it's funny, the people in these pictures would be the first ones to bitch if their freedom's were taken away and these are the people that are the first ones to bitch when something isn't fair. People need to just wake up from that vacuum of cartoons and realize that real-life sucks, the good guy doesn't always win, and walking away doesn't work 9 out of 10 times. But then again, some people were born without the necessary brain functions to comprehend the concept of logic.

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Centurian

dude what this guy's basically saying that people need to remember what the US is fighting for in Iraq and Afghanistan, because the news won't let people remember why America's in Iraq.

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-If you want to kick the tiger in the ass, you'd better have a plan for dealing with his teeth-Jack Ryan Jr.

Afghanistan yes. For the sake of all that is holy Iraq was not about terrorism, oil, WMD, human rights, etc. It was finishing Daddy's War and should have been done in 1991. Afghanistan though is 100% related to 9.11.

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Centurian

Yeah thats true. But I stand by my theory that all Islamic nations are bound together through their religion, though Saddam was prolly not following that rule. but if the US hadn't of invaded, Saddam would have eventually died, leaving his two sons to fight each other to death for power, leaving a vaccum for a fundamentalist leader (prolly backed by Iran), to step in and harness Iraq's nuclear capability for use against Israel and the West. So the invasion of Iraq was part of the war on terror, just sort of getting in there before Iraq turned into a fundamentalist country with chemical and nuclear weapons, and alot closer to Israel than Iran and with the methods to deliver those weapons (i.e. Scuds and those Hussein missiles).

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-If you want to kick the tiger in the ass, you'd better have a plan for dealing with his teeth-Jack Ryan Jr.

Saddam was definitely the exception to the rule, being secular and all. His death would have resulted in a civil war, most likely, with the Kurds in the north and Shi'ia in the south going crazy against the Sunnis. It would have definitely left a power vacuum. Fundamentalism would have probably surfaced, albeit uneasily. However, they really didn't have a nuclear weapons program to be had, unfortuantely, and if they did they did DAMN well of hiding/destroying/shipping out so we'll never know.

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Centurian

I've said before that their nucelar program (which was reputed to be mobile), is likely in Iran or Syria. It took the US so long to get the invasion going (trying to get the UN on their side) that Saddam had more than adequate time to dismantle and ship out the nuke program to wherever. Iran has let Iraq send its military stuff into its country before (in 1991 the majority of the Iraqi air force flew into iran and wasn't shotdown despite Iran and Iraq fighting a very dirty war only a few years before), so i'd bet whatever nuclear program saddam might have had is in Iran.

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-If you want to kick the tiger in the ass, you'd better have a plan for dealing with his teeth-Jack Ryan Jr.

Just riding into Baghdad in your mama's caddy was not an option.

One day CENT your going to have to get off your ass and meet the real world ... I wish I could be there to see it.
That's all.

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"cool beanz"
D. "FETCH" Jordan

Explain yeself.

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Centurian

As a general rule, I'm not that big of a country fan, but, after hearing the song, (I'd heard it before but just forgot about it) I added it into my personal collection. I try not to dwell on 911, but I'll damn sure never forget . . . .or forgive. In the words of another great American, "Fuckin' a, Bubba!!" Although when everything is said and done and cold rational settles in, nobody in their right mind advocates war lightly. Except maybe the ones who don't have to fight it. There just ain't nuthin' glamorous about seeing your best friends guts spread all over the landscape. I guess it's about then you realize that dead is just that. . . dead! And it's such a waste, too. And forever is such a long time. Just remember that it's one thing to play Army on a PC and quite something different when the hardware they're throwing around is for real and you realize that it's not the bullet with your name on it you need to worry about, but the one addressed: To Whom It May Concern!

I don't mean to outright rag on any individual in this string or this board. But as some of you know I was there in 91'. And one of the quickest ways to start a fight with me in real life is to let me overhear, or someone say to me something totally stupid like "they should have finished it in the first Gulf War". The reasons would be obvious to any thinking person that knows even a little about that conflict and some basic history. Not to mention the FACTS that we as Soldiers and Marines had already spent up to 11 months in that desert or in some ways worse in Saudi Arabia getting ready to jump off. And we as a country and a military force do not have an unlimited supply of materials regardless of what some of you tinker bells may think.
I try to always remember the way I thought and the dumb ass things I said when I was in my 20's when I come here and temper my responses because I know without a doubt that as some of you get older you WILL see things differently than you might today.
I have been seldom seen at most of my online haunts of late mostly because I have lost almost all interest in simulations because of my ageing, it's just not something that a guy my age gets into generally because to be honest it takes more imagination than I can muster these days to get any emersion, I'd rather go hit some golf balls or play catch with my kid, he's the gamer in the family now.
But with every post here maybe being my last I must try one more time to explain something to the younger men here, some who's interest in military things and games may lead them to serve.
For the people that want to simplify world affairs to the point of saying this was not there, or one conflict had merit over another, they may never grasp the fact that since western civilization started with the Romans and to a degree the Greeks, there has and always will be the need for a strong trunk to support the branches of the tree.
For my Grandfather who was wounded on Iwo, for my Uncle who was wounded in Nam, for my father who crash landed a jet in Korea, and for me in the desert of Iraq, even though at some point in our selfishness we almost all certainly wondered how we ended up in a situation and may have thought "man I'm dumb, this is not how I thought I would end my days, and the smart ones are sitting back home drinking a nice cold tea and eating steaks" in reflection we see that each played a part in the freedoms all here and elsewhere enjoy. Even my Uncle who for years led a very troubled life after Nam finally when the USSR fell said that he could see some purpose in his service, but would never forgive those that ran that war for the way they did some of it.
In another string here in conversations about Canada I stated ...
"We here in America have not lost our faith, we to this day will still fight to defend freedom and those that seek it, even to the death, even for you, to this very day"
That's not a bunch of baloney, and it is true. When it is not the world as we know it will cease to be.

What did I mean when I said riding your mom's caddy into Baghdad was not an option?
Your a bright guy CENT think about it, or better yet join up and put your butt on the line.
I like you, but are in many ways just another young idealistic fool, and that's not at a bad thing in itself, as long as you remain objective enough to reform your opinions when and where required or confronted with the cold hard reallities of this life.
Hopefully you will gain wisdom in age, but for now you are best to discuss your foolishness with people your own age because to a person my age you just sound like another young man that does not know much about anything that you could not read in a book somewhere.

You ask for it, and you got it.

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"cool beanz"
D. "FETCH" Jordan

I stand by it should have been finished then. I know the whole thing about supply lines, the fact that Arab nations would not have supported an invasion of Baghdad because we were there only to liberate Kuwait, and the other politics and promises of Daddy Bush but Saddam was a menace then, a menace in 1992 and a menace in 2001. He should have been taken care of then. We had the forces, we had the support, we had the deployment. Rather than waste all the money again, to do it the second time, it should have been done then, when he actually had WMD and we could prove it.

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Centurian

Stand by what you will, it does not change what was, or what is.
But take some good advice and word it very carefully around GF1 veterns when face to face.
And you are only showing your own stupidity. Or at best limited thinking trying to support a preconcieved ideal.

Funny I did not see you there?
Where do you get this we shit.
Well at least Bush one, who had been there and knew what it was like, also knew it was time to let us come home.

.... and like I said, I just wish I could be there to see it when you and the real world finially meet up.

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"cool beanz"
D. "FETCH" Jordan

Preconcieved ideal? Stupidity? Okay yes because I happen to think that Saddam shouldn't have been allowed to go on the mass murder sprees that he took following the defeat in 1991. Yes, that's right...

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Centurian

Ok twit ....
just flip the switch from the screwed up world we live in now to Utopia any time you feel like it.
We are all waiting.

And the harder you try to defend that belief, the more this statement suits, and shows how simplistic a thinker you are.

Just riding into Baghdad in your mama's caddy was not an option.


It just wasn't as simple as you make it sound, and was not doable then.
And nothing under the sun will change that.

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"cool beanz"
D. "FETCH" Jordan