Zephyr Net

I'm excited at the prospects of more realistic SAMs. They're always an afterthought it seems when I play the game, and the thoughts of having them more deadly will make missions a lot more interesting!

I am looking forward to your mod Hotshot, I'll take all the new FA content I can get. ") I don't know a great deal about real life sam evasion, but I was reading about the SA-3 recently and this article (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... /s-125.htm) talked about the missile's ability to dive. If you're looking at this specific model, it might at least suggest that diving during an evasive manuever with this model may not be significant advantage. I might be assuming too much there, but read it for yourself and maybe it might provide some insight.

PS - I'm just about back in the mission creation groove for my Ukraine campaign. I fell way behind on it and have the missions converted to the new JKPFA lib plus those great mods to allow me to include the MiG-21 LanceRs and the Moldovan nationality (thanks Zeph!!). I am a bit of perfectionist so I've been spending lots of time retesting the missions for balance and rebuiling my spreadsheet of aircraft assets by country. I had to go through all the aircraft, since some were added and some were removed.

Interesting site you might be interested in: http://www.ausairpower.net/sams-iads.html

It has some interesting SAM info and things like engagement envelopes, radar ranges, etc. Hopefully you'll find it useful.

That is a GGGGGGGGGGGGreat page Groove, thanks

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Yes I am very familiar with that Ausie aipower site... Tons and tons of data there...

And thank you Groove for the SA-3 evasion information...

Trying to make SAMs more realeastic isnt easy to do, especially when factoring in ECM...

So far I have a very realeastic SA-2, SA-6 and am working on making better SA-10A, SA-19s, SA-20 and Nike Hercules, and PATRIOT SAMs...

I still have to address the SA-3, SA-11, and SA-17s

SA-7s, SA-14s, and SA-18s are completed as well as SA-13s and SA-15s as IR SAMs are MUCH easier to make realeastic...

All the SAMs include new shapes and skins for all the launch vehicles and infrastructure and for the missles themselves...

Plus all associated radars...

Plus, of course, my SAM site solution I came up with many years ago is still in force, meaning when you kill the radar vehicle or the site radar, you essentially kill the site, reducing it to its back up electro optical guidance which is very short ranged...

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Kap, I posted something for you over on the VNFAWING.com forums...

In your FM forum...

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SA-6 SAM update...

I have modelled the SA-6 where you absolutely have to get eyes on the missile as it comes inbound... I have made it visually targetable so you can see the missile coming in from the cockpit view, so you can pull a hard slicing 6G plus turn inside the missile's intercept turn to defeat it... With the new Helmet Hud option turned on you get a target box around the incoming missile when you visually lock it up. This alone should give you the necessary information to defeat it, but I have also added a label so if you decide to turn labels on in the game to aid you in locating it as it approaches your aircraft...

Other options exist for defeating the missile... The jammer sometimes works, sometimes doesnt, chaff sometimes works, sometimes doesnt...

And the high G turn most of the time works IF you pickup the missile inbound early, but sometimes it doesnt... As a last ditch measure you use a highspeed barrel roll to defeat the missile if you time it perfectly and start the maneuver before the missile is within lethal range...

Best option it so toggle the jammer on and off AND drop chaff while maneuvering. However, just to be aware, if you are close to the site launching at you it has backup optical guidance and can guide a missile onto you visually, so be aware!

The only issue I have is with the smoke trail... Right now I have the missile smoke trail end with the smoke hanging over the launcher for a more reateastic effect, so you cant rely on seeing the smoke to help you defeat the missile unless you are within 7 or 8 miles of the launcher...

Is there any way to increase the length of the smoke trail itself? Not the length of time it lasts, but its physical length...

That would help immensley if I could increase it...

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the only way i know of extending the smoke is making it last longer.

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That doesnt extend the length of the smoke trail... I have the smoke existing in the game for long enough, I just want the trail itself to be physically longer...

Looks like its going to have to be a hexedit once I locate its limits within the game code...

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Corrected the problem with the SA-6 Launcher of the entire vehicle rotating when it tracks and shoots at targets.

Altered the shape and installed a rotating turret launcher...






Unfortunately there is no way to correct the missles still showing on the launch rails after launch, as the shape can not be altered to eliminate the missiles like they do on the SA-3 launcher...

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wow thats crazy, great job cag!

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Thank you! The turret will turn a full 360 degrees... The vehicle chassis always stays pointed in the same northern direction though so this can only be used as a stationary vehicle or it will drive sideways for east and west routes and backwards for southernly routes! LOL....

To fix that probem I still have an original vehicle shape without the turret to use in convoys and in open movement though, so it will still be realeastic in those situations as well...

There is a SA-6 SITE vehicle(new shape stationary only) and an SA-6 CONVOY vehicle(old shape used for moving vehicles only)...

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For the SAM sites I am thinking of making all the missiles that are not active homers in real life into Semi active beam riders by checking the box that the launcher must use radar to guide the missiles and installing a functional tracking radar at the site. This should make my SAM sites even more realeastic, building upon my SAM SITE solution from many years back that canged the site from many independant self illuminating launchers into an integrated site with a single illuminating radar...

I noticed an issue that bugs me the way my SAMSITEs work right now. When the SA-6 launced at me from a distance and I turned away, the launcher turret turned and engaged another target, but he SA-6 fired at me stayed tracking me, which isnt realeastic...

This correction should work very well with the SA-2,3,6,11, and 17 as well as the HAWK and Nike sites, as none of those missiles are active homing radar missiles like the SA-5, SA-10, SA-20, and PATRIOT is...

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BTW anyone have accurate data on the proximity fuse ranges on SAMs?

I dont know the blast radius on the warheads...

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You're welcome Kaptor, I'm glad you like the site and I'm glad you found the SA-3 evasion information userful Hotshot.

I'm liking the rotating turrets you're working on I think that's really neat. Most of the time I use keep SAMs stationary anyway, so it won't be an issue if the until only points north. Although I am working on a mission that has mobile SAM units ironically (that are actually SA-6s... lol), but most of the time having them travel between waypoints isn't an issue. Keep up the most excellent modding!

-Groove

Here's some rough fuse and warhead notes I took down some time ago:


SA-2; proximity fuse; low alt "lethal radius" of 215 ft; high alt "lethal radius" 820 ft; 400 lb HE warhead

SA-3; proximity fuse; 120 lb HE & pellet warhead

SA-5; proximity fuse; 480 lb HE & (lots of) pellet warhead

SA-6; prox fuse; 120 lb HE warhead

SA-7; impact & grazing fuses

SA-9; proximity fuse

SA-8; proximity; 32 lb HE

SA-10; proximity; 200-300 lb HE

SA-11; proximity; 150 lb HE

SA-12; same as SA-10??

SA-13; proximity

SA-14;

SA-15; proximity; 30 lb HE

SA-16; impact & grazing

SA-17; same as SA-11?

SA-18; impact & grazing

SA-19; proximity; 18 lbs

SA-20; same as SA-10?

SA-21; same as SA-10?



MIM-104:

PAC-2; proximity; 200 lb HE

PAC-3; Hit to kill

MIM-14; proximity???

MIM-23; proximity fuse; 160 lb warhead; 14,000 fragments in 70 degree arc

FIM-92; proximity?; conflicting sources



Roland; 14 lbs

Crotale; IR proximity