Zephyr Net

On D-Day the defenders were heavily outnumbered, but they were on home ground. They were probably more experienced and had better equipment. Did you know that there were only five Mg34 machine-gun emplacements. But they got more than 5000 kills (just those 5 MGs).

Stalingrad did not involve any great plans, it was a major f*ckup on the German side rather than great tactics by the Russians.

MGs vs. flesh dont stand up too well. I hand it to the Nazi's man they put up a very worthy fight. They were some highly trained personnel. Man I want to fight an enemy like that again, something respectable. Though I do have respect for the Republican Guard. They are well trained as well. Nothing near the Nazi's or the Japanese or even the Viet Cong but they'd a respectable foe.

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"Smile, AMRAAMs love you!"
"May the PATRIOTS down the FROGS!"
1Lt. Centurian57_76/369th

For all your FA needs and Game Remod 6 visit

Actually the best strategy was in the battle of Midway and I am sorry to see that it not chosen. I would have, but I picked Inchon due to my current fascination with Korea! But Midway changed the entire direction of WWII in the Pacific and was completely accomplished against a massively superior force. A mission plan built entirly on decrypted enemy messages that uncovered a complete battle plan for the entire Japanese Fleet.

Nothing else really even comes close to this. No other battle in history had so much information on enemy disposition and force use. Even Desert Storm the coalation forces had no real idea of what the Iraqis would do...

Couple this to the fact that the battle took place over hundreds of miles with such limited technology employed by both sides and its even amazing the US Forces found the Japanese Carriers and sunk them after they moved from their identified locations.

As I said its a shame no one chose it...

Also the biggest tank battle in history and you left it off the list...

The Battle of Kursk in WWII...

Stalin's general staff had deduced how Hitler would employ his armored divisions to cut of the Kursk salient (or Bulge) by armored strikes on its flanks and the Russians built MASSIVE DEPTH(we are talking miles deep of antitank guns and ditch defenses, plus embedded troops and 10s of thousands of artillery pieces) to their anti tank defenses and let the Germans break themselves on the defenses, then counter attacked and wiped out two complete German Army Groups...

Or the most important battle by Allied Forces in Europe, the "Battle of the Bulge" where Patton pulled the entire Third Army out of a ongoing attack in the Saar and pivoted it 90 degrees in the worst weather experienced in a European Winter in 100 years and attacked due north within 24 hours and penetrated completely across the waist of the bulge to Bastogne to link up with the cutoff 101st Airborne defending that Town's road junction against 4 German armored and Armored Infantry divisions. That attack was so important for both sides as it showed complete surprise and massive planning and pre positioning of forces by the Germans into an area the Allies deemed a 'safe zone' which caught them completely by surprise and destroyed several complete divisions on the fighting, 106 Infantry(the "Golden Lions were a brand new untested division), 24th Infantry( A Veteran division recovering from massive damage inflicted earlier in combat). and the 10th Armored which lost its cohesion and had to complete split up its combat commands into teams to make road blocks all across the area and lost 90% of its Sherman Tanks and Artillery...
On the flip side it showed what the American GI si made of when cut off and faced with overwhelming odds. He defeated adversity and sacraficied himself to slow the German onslaught until forces could be brought to bear to stop the German maneuver.. Absolutely awesome examples of individual soldiers stopping complete Panzer Groups with a single machinegun or bazooka, even grenades... all along the roads in the Ardennes...

From what I have read all of you, seem to have forgoten about the battle for Stalingrad and the "Kuldron" The hole 6th German army was captured and the deception used left German out of the loop. they didnt see it commin, they belived it was goin to happen around Moscow. It was the changing point of WWII, the first Mayor (porbably 1st) vixtory for the Allies in the war, the biggin of the end for the Germans.

BT Ace! where u been dude? long time no see.

Anyway the beginning of the end for the Germans was Pearl Harbor. They didnt' want none of the U.S. military/ industry

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allah no longer exists, for I have killed him. You must worship me instead.

In 1942, US production equalled that of the axis (GR, IT, JAP).
In 1944, US production was double that of the axis.

BOTH COMBINED. It's safe to say no one wanted that upon them.

_________________
"Smile, AMRAAMs love you!"
"May the PATRIOTS down the FROGS!"
1Lt. Centurian57_76/369th

For all your FA needs and Game Remod 6 visit

I am still livin, just got my ass on hyper lobby to day anyone wana play? Well I was talkin about the fact that if russia rolled over, on d-day more of the forces would have been in europe. Possible the russian forces would have eneded up in Africa, where they could have eliminated Allies making the landings a impssible task. With out a 2nd front US, UK, and Canada would have been CREWED on D-DAY!!!

I drive by a Veterns cemetary for fallen Soliders in WWII everyday on the way to work, I visit with my son once in awhile. lately its become something I actually look forward to, and can't drive past it without a long long look. My Grandfather hit Iwo Jima with two of his brothers, and lost one right when the door fell. I can only say that he did not even think to look around to see where they where for 24 hrs, it was so intense there.

Leo mention a movie "Saveing private Ryan" I keep that movie loaded in the old VCR in my computer room. When I don't fell like pulling overtime, or just think I got it tough, I watch the first part with the old glory flapping and the old Man walkin in the graveyard, and stop it.
I go out my door, try not to flip-off to many pilgrams while on my way. a few miles down the road there is the Vets. cemetary, and I start to think a little. When I get to the shop, and get out of the car there is our flag we fly at G&R Metals, I hear the rigging clanking in the wind, and remind myself that each one of us as Americans has a job. We all play a part, do what you do with pride, do it like you mean it, we the American worker in the end is our countries ultimate weapon. And pullin a 10hr day sure beats getting shot. So I do it.

Sounds corny .... but thats me.

So I agree with big on this one.


I play at GAMESPY

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"cool beanz"
D. "FETCH" Jordan

Since when has death defined bravery...
ANYONE who fights for something that has given me such freedom and made it possible for me to live I owe them a defense. These are heroes, not supernatural but people who have shown courage or using your "brave" word they have shown incredible bravery... what's even more important is how these people are not always soldiers. I look at this comment and take it for what it is worth... But for a minute let's say Germany took over the British Isles in the latter parts of the war despite how it was originally not their plan, my dad who is Scottish would have never been born and therefore nor would I... that is reality...and like all reality it is defined through reasoning. I'd appreciate it if you show a little more respect through your comments around here please, it's getting more and more out of control.

And when are you getting your copy of FA anyway, because if this keeps up in a game world then I'll see you 1vs1 guns only and we'll see just how "brave" I can make you heh.

<S> ALL

Jimbo

I would play you on HL, but me and Centurian were banned from there for saying -U.S.A. (I was planning to leave anyway).

There's a boycott taking place, the link on my signature is where the movement is going.

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allah no longer exists, for I have killed him. You must worship me instead.

Before you become all buddy buddy with BT Ace, perhaps you should visit the old general discussions board and see what his opinion is on Canadian PMs decision to criticise the US over Iraq...

"Re:Put Your Cards On The Table
« Reply #58 on: April 04, 2003, 22:04:08 PM »

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I know i am late but, NO!! Canadian PM made the right choice. "

Is that what he meant? I didn't quite understand his comment, it kinda came out of the blue..........

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allah no longer exists, for I have killed him. You must worship me instead.

IN MY NON IMPORTANT OPINION D-DAY ENDED UP BEEN MORE A LOSE THAN A VICTOTY TO THE ALLIES.....cus they have lost so many soldiers that they could only go foward when more troops arrived. the Generals didn´t expected that it would be so hard to knock out the Nazis in Normandy

If taking omaha beach were so brillant who were the brilliants guys that made so many U.S. Soldiers die without even having a chance to fire a single shot on that beach(as seen on the movie Saving private Ryan)????

For me a Brave move is different from a cleaver move...

All Living mens were victims from Hitler back in 1933-45... thank god that ALL the allies(US, UK,USSR and much more) wiped off him and his nazis fellas

I do not Intend to disrespect the mens who died back on the Past Wars....
My Grandpa Fighted in Italy in WWII as Well

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"History is written by the winners"
Robert McNamara

Yo man I feal what u said was a attack on me:

Before you become all buddy buddy with BT Ace, perhaps you should visit the old general discussions board and see what his opinion is on Canadian PMs decision to criticise the US over Iraq...

[color=blue]Its just my oppinion. I dont belive this is a just war. and Cretien made the right choice for not goin to war. If the U.N. approval was given i would support my country in the war, if needed i would enlist and fight, but this is just like...... well. Man dont take everything so personaly (Atleast thats what it seems like.), I aint attacking ur choice to fight, I am using my choice not to.[/color]

Geeze Leo you actually get dumber every day...

What did you expect? The Germans to stand up and wave at us when we landed? They had dug in defenses. Overlapping fields of fire, had trained at Beach Defense for years. Every square inch of the beach had been zero'd in on their weapons. Yet we defeated them, even on Omaha Beach where the troops were hemmed in my a narrow beach and high bluffs and blocked in with 2 massive concrete obstacles that had to be destroyed before any progress could be made inland.

The Germans could not be strong everywhere. They were strong at Omaha, but not a Gold, Sword, or Juno and definately not at Utah.
They were front line infantry, not the second rate defenders the troops had been told to expect. These German reservists were withdrawn from the beaches just the previous month because Rommel wanted better troops along the actual defenses instead of being in reserve to move to break through points because he correctly reasoned allied airpower would deny him the freedom of movement he needded to accomplish that. Its the one major flaw of Hitler and Von Rudenstedt, they never fully understood this.

The reason deep penetrations could not be made was the terrain. Have you ever been to Normandy? The fields are seperated by high berms of dirt 10 feet high and thick bramble bushes and trees. Every 50 to 100 yards you had another hedgerow. This favors the defense with excelelnt positions and dense cammouflage. Tanks that climbed the hedgerows to attack exposed their thin skinned underbellies and were knocked out. You could never know what was on the other side of the hedgerow and many an allied soldier paid for that with his life. But what choices did they have Leo? Land at Pa de Calasis(sp?) and be destroyed at the beach by heavy German defenses(defenses in depth up to 1000 times as prepared as Normandy) and then run smack into the 15th Panzer stationed there?

The allies had no choice then but to go to Normandy to make a successful landing. Just how successful it was is proven by the 3rd armies breakout into the Brittany penisula and then the long end around encirclement of all of the forces of the German Army West at the Falaise (sp?) pocket. Unfortunately the British were led by Montgomery and he was to timid to push down south after his heavy losses of operation Goodwood(lost 600 tanks in one day to prepared anti tank defesnes when he attemped to advance in close formations along a narrow front over open fields near Cain) and many of the Germans escaped (though mostly without heavy weapons as allied aircraft made the pocket untenable and destroyed everything that moved on the roads with rocket firing Typhoons and bomb dropping P-47s..)

Shall I go on Leo? You picked another topic you obvioulsy have no knowledge of... AGAIN..