Zephyr Net


Return to the Fighters Anthology Resource Center

Go to the VNFAWING.com Forums
It is currently Mon Jul 07, 2025 05:45 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 159 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 ... 11  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2003 21:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2003 21:00 pm
Posts: 634
Location: Toronto Ont. Canada
Its realy hard to say, if NATO struck first and jammed, things could have been different. But if Ruskies struck first (that would have prob happened) things would have been different. Now when u think about it, it all relies on who strikes first. Who strikes first, would prob have the upper hand.

_________________
Image

August 2nd 2003
The 110th Anniversary of Yugolsaivan Aviation!
St. Elias the gardian of the Fighter pilot.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2003 21:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2003 17:12 pm
Posts: 1606
Location: NY, USA
I think NATO would have had the upper hand simply because of technological advantage and unlike Vietnam it would have been useful because I doubt the ROE would have been strict at all.

_________________
"Smile, AMRAAMs love you!"
"May the PATRIOTS down the FROGS!"
1Lt. Centurian57_76/369th

For all your FA needs and Game Remod 6 visit
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2003 21:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2003 21:00 pm
Posts: 634
Location: Toronto Ont. Canada
I know about the tech edge, but u cant doubt the ruskies ingenuity (spelling), they have some good techs too, u cant realy dismiss them for that off the bat. althought they didnt have the US standards, they still had quite good techs.

_________________
Image

August 2nd 2003
The 110th Anniversary of Yugolsaivan Aviation!
St. Elias the gardian of the Fighter pilot.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2003 21:31 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2003 18:31 pm
Posts: 464
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
U.S. vs. USSR...

No matter who striked first,or who had most chances of wining The world would be destroyed anyway....
be cause of the nukes and all you know.....

_________________
"History is written by the winners"
Robert McNamara


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2003 23:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2003 18:58 pm
Posts: 2041
Location: Charleston, USA
We talkin about conventional means Leo.

Anyway Soviet fighters and bomber would have been able to reach the U.S. from Cuba. Perhaps over the artic too.

But I don't think they would have been able to mass the neccesary equipment to pull something like that off without a U-2 or something like that snaping a quick photo.

If the Soviets would have massed from Cuba they would have had the advantage, but that would also be though to do cause they'd have to use shiping methods to transport aircraft, kinda like they did with the nukes in the CMC.......

The reason I'd give the Soviets a slight advantage if they launched from Cuba is because we didn't mass produce SAMs like they did. However I think the USAF would have been able to fill the void.

Had the Soviets massed I think we would have struck first. But I don't think the war would have been on American shores. The bulk of it all would have been in Europe, the Mediterranean and Asia.

Turkey probably would have been able to close the sea to Russian shipping.

But I really think airpower would have been pivotal in a war like that (duh!).

Say nukes weren't used, how would the diplomats have been able to end a war like that?

Because I don't think either side would have invaded the other..........

_________________
Image

allah no longer exists, for I have killed him. You must worship me instead.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2003 02:32 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2003 17:12 pm
Posts: 1606
Location: NY, USA
da big man! wrote:
We talkin about conventional means Leo.

Anyway Soviet fighters and bomber would have been able to reach the U.S. from Cuba. Perhaps over the artic too.

But I don't think they would have been able to mass the neccesary equipment to pull something like that off without a U-2 or something like that snaping a quick photo.

If the Soviets would have massed from Cuba they would have had the advantage, but that would also be though to do cause they'd have to use shiping methods to transport aircraft, kinda like they did with the nukes in the CMC.......

The reason I'd give the Soviets a slight advantage if they launched from Cuba is because we didn't mass produce SAMs like they did. However I think the USAF would have been able to fill the void.

Had the Soviets massed I think we would have struck first. But I don't think the war would have been on American shores. The bulk of it all would have been in Europe, the Mediterranean and Asia.

Turkey probably would have been able to close the sea to Russian shipping.

But I really think airpower would have been pivotal in a war like that (duh!).

Say nukes weren't used, how would the diplomats have been able to end a war like that?

Because I don't think either side would have invaded the other..........


depends on how it began. if soviets massed in cuba and in eastern europe it could easily been seen as a pre before an attack...if they launched on w. europe they def attacked first...depends on the circumstances...

_________________
"Smile, AMRAAMs love you!"
"May the PATRIOTS down the FROGS!"
1Lt. Centurian57_76/369th

For all your FA needs and Game Remod 6 visit
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2003 16:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2003 18:31 pm
Posts: 464
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
I think that an episode like The misiles crisis Its an good sample of how the cold war could had been hot

_________________
"History is written by the winners"
Robert McNamara


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2003 20:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2003 17:12 pm
Posts: 1606
Location: NY, USA
Or a Soviet move on Berlin = NUKE ANNIHILATION BY THE US

_________________
"Smile, AMRAAMs love you!"
"May the PATRIOTS down the FROGS!"
1Lt. Centurian57_76/369th

For all your FA needs and Game Remod 6 visit
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2003 20:56 pm 
Cent,

I doubt the United States would risk complete destruction by launching a nuclear strike because the USSR took over West Berlin. Most likely we would hit them conventionally somewhere where it really hurt and cost them deep into their pockets...

That is what the Russians always notice, which is why they supported Iraq... they need the cash from wherever they can find it and Iraq had cash...


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2003 00:29 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2003 17:12 pm
Posts: 1606
Location: NY, USA
Kennedy strictly said that any move on Berlin would be seen as a move against the US and would be met with full force.

_________________
"Smile, AMRAAMs love you!"
"May the PATRIOTS down the FROGS!"
1Lt. Centurian57_76/369th

For all your FA needs and Game Remod 6 visit
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2003 16:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2003 18:58 pm
Posts: 2041
Location: Charleston, USA
rgrt, lol it's odd that the most poppular thread on this board only has 8 votes :lol:

_________________
Image

allah no longer exists, for I have killed him. You must worship me instead.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2003 16:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2003 17:12 pm
Posts: 1606
Location: NY, USA
lots of discussion man.

_________________
"Smile, AMRAAMs love you!"
"May the PATRIOTS down the FROGS!"
1Lt. Centurian57_76/369th

For all your FA needs and Game Remod 6 visit
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 6DW
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 18:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2003 18:58 pm
Posts: 2041
Location: Charleston, USA
Centurian wrote:
da big man! wrote:
U sure about that tank? I heard they lost about 80 planes............


Don't remember reading that they lost any planes. 6 days they devestated the militaries of the countries around them. Talk about a pre-emptive strike. Man if they didn't they'd have never existed after that.


According to the "IAF 50th Anniversery" CD, the IAF shot down about 70 something planes without a loss in the Lebanon war of '82.

You sure this aint what you read about Tank? Cause the IAF lost a few jets during the Six Day War.....

_________________
Image

allah no longer exists, for I have killed him. You must worship me instead.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 19:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 18:54 pm
Posts: 4437
IAF lost no aircraft over the Bekka Vallery in 1982. They completly dominated the skies due to electronic superiority. They had 'sniffer' drones over all the Syrian airfields and E-2Cs in the skies above and massive jamming support from 707s... they went 70 kills, no losses...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Nuclear Exchange
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 20:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2003 19:00 pm
Posts: 763
Quote:
U.S. vs. USSR...

No matter who striked first,or who had most chances of wining The world would be destroyed anyway....
be cause of the nukes and all you know.....


"Is Nuclear War Survivable?

J.R. Nyquist, Worldnetdaily.com, May 20, 1999

As I write about Russia's nuclear war preparations, I get some interesting mail
in response. Some correspondents imagine I am totally ignorant. They point out
that nuclear war would cause "nuclear winter," and everyone would die. Since
nobody wants to die, nobody would ever start a nuclear war (and nobody would
ever seriously prepare for one). Other correspondents suggest I am ignorant of
the world-destroying effects of nuclear radiation.

I patiently reply to these correspondents that nuclear war would not be the end
of the world. I then point to studies showing that "nuclear winter" has no
scientific basis, that fallout from a nuclear war would not kill all life on
earth. Surprisingly, few of my correspondents are convinced. They prefer
apocalyptic myths created by pop scientists, movie producers and journalists.
If Dr. Carl Sagan once said "nuclear winter" would follow a nuclear war, then
it must be true. If radiation wipes out mankind in a movie, then that's what we
can expect in real life.

But Carl Sagan was wrong about nuclear winter. And the movie "On the Beach"
misled American filmgoers about the effects of fallout. It is time, once and
for all, to lay these myths to rest. Nuclear war would not bring about the end
of the world, though it would be horribly destructive.
The truth is, many prominent physicists have condemned the nuclear winter
hypothesis. Nobel laureate Freeman Dyson once said of nuclear winter research,
"It's an absolutely atrocious piece of science, but I quite despair of setting
the public record straight."

Professor Michael McElroy, a Harvard physics professor, also criticized the
nuclear winter hypothesis. McElroy said that nuclear winter researchers
"stacked the deck" in their study, which was titled "Nuclear Winter: Global
Consequences of Multiple Nuclear Explosions" (Science, December 1983).

Nuclear winter is the theory that the mass use of nuclear weapons would create
enough smoke and dust to blot out the sun, causing a catastrophic drop in
global temperatures. According to Carl Sagan, in this situation the earth would
freeze. No crops could be grown. Humanity would die of cold and starvation.

In truth, natural disasters have frequently produced smoke and dust far greater
than those expected from a nuclear war. In 1883 Krakatoa exploded with a blast
equivalent to 10,000 one-megaton bombs, a detonation greater than the combined
nuclear arsenals of planet earth. The Krakatoa explosion had negligible weather
effects. Even more disastrous, going back many thousands of years, a meteor
struck Quebec with the force of 17.5 million one-megaton bombs, creating a
crater 63 kilometers in diameter. But the world did not freeze. Life on earth
was not extinguished.

Consider the views of Professor George Rathjens of MIT, a known antinuclear
activist, who said, "Nuclear winter is the worst example of misrepresentation
of science to the public in my memory." Also consider Professor Russell Seitz,
at Harvard University's Center for International Affairs, who says that the
nuclear winter hypothesis has been discredited.
Two researchers, Starley Thompson and Stephen Schneider, debunked the nuclear
winter hypothesis in the summer 1986 issue of Foreign Affairs. Thompson and
Schneider stated: "the global apocalyptic conclusions of the initial nuclear
winter hypothesis can now be relegated to a vanishingly low level of
probability."

OK, so nuclear winter isn't going to happen. What about nuclear fallout?
Wouldn't the radiation from a nuclear war contaminate the whole earth, killing
everyone?

The short answer is: absolutely not. Nuclear fallout is a problem, but we
should not exaggerate its effects. As it happens, there are two types of
fallout produced by nuclear detonations. These are: 1) delayed fallout; and 2)
short-term fallout.

According to researcher Peter V. Pry, "Delayed fallout will not, contrary to
popular belief, gradually kill billions of people everywhere in the world." Of
course, delayed fallout would increase the number of people dying of lymphatic
cancer, leukemia, and cancer of the thyroid. "However," says Pry, "these deaths
would probably be far fewer than deaths now resulting from ... smoking, or from
automobile accidents."

The real hazard in a nuclear war is the short-term fallout. This is a type of
fallout created when a nuclear weapon is detonated at ground level. This type
of fallout could kill millions of people, depending on the targeting strategy
of the attacking country. But short-term fallout rapidly subsides to safe
levels in 13 to 18 days. It is not permanent. People who live outside of the
affected areas will be fine. Those in affected areas can survive if they have
access to underground shelters. In some areas, staying indoors may even
suffice.

Contrary to popular misconception, there were no documented deaths from
short-term or delayed fallout at either Hiroshima or Nagasaki. These blasts
were low airbursts, which produced minimal fallout effects. Today's
thermonuclear weapons are even "cleaner." If used in airburst mode, these
weapons would produce few (if any) fallout casualties.

On their side, Russian military experts believe that the next world war will be
a nuclear missile war. They know that nuclear weapons cannot cause the end of
the world. According to the Russian military writer, A. S. Milovidov, "There is
profound error and harm in the disoriented claims of bourgeois ideologues that
there will be no victor in a thermonuclear world war." Milovidov explains that
Western objections to the mass use of nuclear weapons are based on "a
subjective judgment. It expresses mere protest against nuclear war."

Another Russian theorist, Captain First Rank V. Kulakov, believes that a mass
nuclear strike may not be enough to defeat "a strong enemy, with extensive
territory enabling him to use space and time for the organizations of active
and passive defense. ..."

Russian military theory regards nuclear war as highly destructive, but
nonetheless winnable. Russian generals do not exaggerate the effects of mass
destruction weapons. Although nuclear war would be unprecedented in its
death-dealing potential, Russian strategists believe that a well-prepared
system of tunnels and underground bunkers could save many millions of lives.
That is why Russia has built a comprehensive shelter system for its urban
populace.

On the American side as well, there have been studies which suggest that
nuclear war is survivable. The famous 1960 Rand Corporation study, "On
Thermonuclear War," says, "Even if 100 metropolitan areas [in the USA] are
destroyed, there would be more wealth in this country than there is in all of
Russia today and more skills than were available to that country in the
forties. The United States is a very wealthy and well-educated country."

The Rand study states that even if half the U.S. population were killed, "the
survivors would not just lie down and die. Nor would they necessarily suffer a
disastrous social disorganization."
Despite so many scholarly works and scientific studies, myths about nuclear war
persist. These myths serve to confuse and misinform the American public.
Because of these myths the United States government did not bother to build
fallout shelters for its people. Because of these myths we do not take
seriously the nuclear war preparations of Russia and China.

Last February I was with the Russian military defector, Col. Stanislav Lunev.
We were about to go into a meeting with a group of retired military and CIA
officials. I told Col. Lunev that the people we were about to meet did not
believe nuclear weapons were usable.

"Why not?" he asked, surprised.

"Because they believe the little fishies and whales would all be killed if
there were a nuclear exchange," I replied, sarcastically.

"So what?" replied Lunev. "The Russian general staff doesn't care."

The objective in war is victory. As every good general knows, there are many
paths to victory. One of these paths might be a thermonuclear path. If this
determination has been arrived at in Moscow and Beijing, it could explain a
great deal of what we're seeing today. Hopefully, the situation is not so
serious. Nonetheless, we must be vigilant and we must be better informed.

J.R. Nyquist is a WorldNetDaily contributing editor and author of 'Origins of
the Fourth World War.'"

Zephyr


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 159 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 ... 11  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group