Zephyr Net

Before Operation Iraqi Freedom started the Iraqis had MiG 21s, 23s, 25s, 29s, Su 17s IIRC, 24s, 25s, as well as Tu 22 bombers IIRC.

Now there's no doubt that most (if not all) of their planes have been wiped out on the ground (another extremely retarded move not to send them up BTW).

Now after this is all over it'll be like giving a sheep to the wolves (kind of like with Israel in 1948). In that a DEMOCRACY will be right smack dab in between Iran and Syria, Not a good formula for future stability. In my opinion there's no way we can just go and leave the Iraqis on their own when we pull out, we'll first have to beef them up with military strength, otherwise the Baathist will just invade from Syria.........

What kind of equipment would the Iraqi airforce recieve?

The Russians and French are against Democracy, so they won't be the ones to replenish them. So the only possible way for the Iraqis to have a suitable military is to turn to the U.S. Do you think it's possible to see F-15s or 16s in the Iraqi AF in the near future?

Perhaps when the production of the F-22 is started maybe some of the F-15s and 16s being replaced could be sold to them, no?

This topic came to me recently, one of nights where you just can't go to sleep..............ever have those? Anyway I must admit this is a very interesting topic.........

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allah no longer exists, for I have killed him. You must worship me instead.

I think that this depends on the U.S. congress approval...

Cus Brazil tried to buy F/A-18 and F-16s but gave up cus the congress have not approved selling BVR missiles(Amraam)

Then the the best choice would be Sukhoi planes(but I think that US generals wont agree with this)......so you have that Gripen stuff but I think that those planes sucks....

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"History is written by the winners"
Robert McNamara

In the Polish tests the Gripens were by far superior to the F16 concerning the opinion of the Airforce pilots.

I dont think the Iraqis will get anything new. I'd give them F4s, maybe some F5s as well if they are still available.

As the pilots are mostly trained on MiG21s, MiG29s and MF1s it might be a good idea to get some of those planes after all.

The Gripen have surely best avionics ( cus its More modern) But they say that his engine sucks

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"History is written by the winners"
Robert McNamara

Yeah but I have a feeling this will be like NAM, in that we'll send advisers over there to teach them how to fly (hopefully they wont turn on us, lol). If we do that , it is possible to adapt American jets to their airforce.

Doesn't Germany have a mix of Russian and American aircraft? Anyway, I don't think it'd be that hard to teach them how to fly better.

But the Russians were against a Democratic Iraq from the beginning, so I doubt they'd sell the new Iraqi government any new planes..........and if they did, then there's no chance they'll send trainers to teach them how to fly properly.

I just don't think we're going to leave without selling them some F-16s or 15s.

But keep in mind that the Iraqis are still mostly arabs. Thus they share a hate of Israel. So what's the right course of action-

Supplying them with weapons to protect themselves against the Iranians? Or not to rebuild their airforce?

Cause if we do, on one hand the Iraqis will be able to defend themselves, on the other hand they may try to start a war with Israel.........

That's a really hairy question.........

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allah no longer exists, for I have killed him. You must worship me instead.

All eastern aircraft Germany has are 23 Mig29s (4 of which are trainers). They will be the first to be replaced by the Eurofighter. I cant see us selling them to Iraq, though. First it was planned to sell them to Poland, but as they are buying F16s now that will not be an option anymore.

As Germany's arms export laws are very strict it will probably not be possible to sell them to Iraq. Maybe Czechoslovakia wants them.

maybe a few countries should help, russia, france, and germany r saying what they want to happen now, but their soldiers didn't fight the regime,

Yeah kewell... this tipical coming from those politics....
They didnot lost one life there but they want their piece of the cake too...
They are doing this cus they used to buy Iraq´s oil at low prices...

by the way, have you seen the french missiles that they found in Iraq?
dated of 94........

All those rich countries have their tricky nasty stories when dealin with those kinds of questions... welcome to the REAL word

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"History is written by the winners"
Robert McNamara

Leo.................I'm completely stunned, we actually agree on something. Small world aint it?

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allah no longer exists, for I have killed him. You must worship me instead.

Thats right those french and russians are some true motherfuckers!

If poor countries sold stuff to Iraq I would understand but french!
What a bunch of dumbasses!

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"History is written by the winners"
Robert McNamara

Well look at the Saudi Air Force. They're not exactly lovers of Israel either, but they have F-15Cs and F-15S. So Israel maintains an edge, the F-15S has a slightly lower avionics capability than the F-15I. There will have to be a new Iraqi Airforce, and I predict the US will make sure a new Iraqi Airforce buys American. I predict F-16 blk 60s, Apaches, and Blackhawks. Similar to what Saudi Arabia and Egypt have. The F-16 blk 60 is being sold the UAE and Israel is getting a customized version as well. With conformal fuel tanks, AESA radar, and PGMs, it is a very capable fighter. With US equipment, Iraq's future military could be interoperable with the US, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, etc. The old Iraqi Airforce of MiGs, Fitters, and Mirage F.1s has been pretty much destroyed on the ground I believe.

Zephyr

I guess the hate of France spans all borders, LOL

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allah no longer exists, for I have killed him. You must worship me instead.

That's what I think too Zeph. But just giving the Iraqi's the F-16 will do no good whatsoever. We'll first have to teach them how to use the technology, or else it will be dumb vs dumber when / if they face Iran

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allah no longer exists, for I have killed him. You must worship me instead.

Yes, we'll have to give the Iraqi pilots full training for the equipment and tactics. But don't underestimate Iranian training, which is based US training given during the time of the Imperial Iranian Air Force. During the Iran/Iraq war the Iranians scored a significant number of BVR hits using Sparrows and Pheonixes fired by their F-4s and F-14As. See:

http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_19.shtml
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_76.shtml

ACIG gets their info by going into Iraq and Iran and looks at reckage, talks to pilots, etc.

Zephyr

It really says they had Aim-54s. I have read just about anywhere else that Iran never got any AIM-54s