Zephyr Net

Big it may have something to do with the US selling downgraded weopons to other nations. Example the F-86D was cansidered too advanced to be sold to allied nation so a downgraded varient was offerend, as well as the first F-16's (The two seat varient) engines were considered too important to be sold to allies to weaker engines were intalled in planes sold and they handycapped perfomince.

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August 2nd 2003
The 110th Anniversary of Yugolsaivan Aviation!
St. Elias the gardian of the Fighter pilot.

The MiG-21s were bought in a different era than the F-16s were available. During that time the US supported PAKISTAN, and the Soviet Union supported India. General Chuck Yeager actually was involved in training the Pakistani Air Force. This was before either nation tested nuclear weapons, hence before any embargoes by the US. After embargoes left several Indian projects hanging they are hesitant to buy from the US.

Zephyr

Yes, but this makes perfectly logical sense and is still mirrored in todays weapons, such as the AIM-9P vs the AIM-9L/M ...

Both of these sidewinders had superior capabilities, but hte L/M all aspect engagement versions were only sold to 'trusted' allies, while the P went to 'favored' allies...

After all Pakistan has proven to be a not to trustworth ally as they have supplied atleast two F-16s to China to help in the development of the J-10...

Iran never received the AIM-54C digital model, only the A version, and the Analog version of the AWG radar, which was already considered limited in capability at the time of the sale.

I understand why downgraded vaients were sold. But it may leave many nation trust in US, in shambles. India was a part of the Non-alliance agreement with Yugoslavia, Egypt and Iraq. They were the main nations, in that pact. They did not side with neighter side (NATO or WarSaw Pac) there for their were not given the best techology. I mean they in a sence were embargoed by both sides. Only given limited weopons, such as MiG-21's and F-86's, Gnats, while more capable weopons were not sold to them in fear they maybe used againt the seliin country.

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August 2nd 2003
The 110th Anniversary of Yugolsaivan Aviation!
St. Elias the gardian of the Fighter pilot.

Well considering that the downgraded weapons are actually listed with their real performances and limitations, any nation purchasing them should not be suprised or shocked at what they are getting...

I do not see any correlation in this subject and 'lack of trust' about US weapons...

But dont sweat it... Keep on buying RUssian... It just makes the IAF an easier target in the future, since no modern RUssian aircraft has proven very effective in any modern conflict, post Vietnam and its ridiclous rules of engagement...

It is not about trust in US weopons, that is ther, but the Trust in the US it self.

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August 2nd 2003
The 110th Anniversary of Yugolsaivan Aviation!
St. Elias the gardian of the Fighter pilot.

Hi CAG,

Russian stuff is the best, if mated with Israeli/ French/ Indian insides like the MiG 21 Bison, Su 30 MKI, future LCA-Tejas, and even the BrahMos Cruise Mssile. And almost all if the Indian Navys ships.
All of these are the weapons systems of the future to be brought/ upgraded by India.
None of these are "Russian" on the insides, where it matters..
And where have any modern Russian aircraft been beaten if not against AWACS/ Link 16 eqpd forces?
You might say that the aircraft still has to perform at any cost, but then that logic applies to any F 16 too, when flown without without any AWACS/ Link 16/ APX 80..

Regards,

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Download FAMP 1.1, FA India Pakistan and Music Libs

http://13vultures.tripod.com,

Centurian's
http://www.theforsakenoutlaw.com/main.htm

Hi,

An update: A second MiG 21 Bison squadron has been inducted, IIRC the No 21 Ankush at Sirsa..

_________________
Download FAMP 1.1, FA India Pakistan and Music Libs

http://13vultures.tripod.com,

Centurian's
http://www.theforsakenoutlaw.com/main.htm

IAF would last 15 minutes in combat with US forces...

Their technology is to limited, their training to stifled, their weapons and tactics out of date. Even the new SU-30s are of limited value when employed in the manner the IAF uses.

Its a shame to, if they had simply realized their Russian made equipment puts them at such a disadvantage that they should stay on teh ground as the Iraqis did..

Hopefully we will never have to test it in live combat. I would ahte to have to see so many dead IndAF pilots...

Hi,

There is only so much crap I can take in one day...
CAG, please do tell/ inform/ enlighten me as to how the IAF uses its Su 30 MKIs.

Please please do read up on the IAF, planes, airbases, doctrines etc...a humble request.

_________________
Download FAMP 1.1, FA India Pakistan and Music Libs

http://13vultures.tripod.com,

Centurian's
http://www.theforsakenoutlaw.com/main.htm

U.S. aircraft would send India back to the stone age, there's nothing you have that could stop us.

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allah no longer exists, for I have killed him. You must worship me instead.

Of course! so lets trust the Soviet Union! Oh yeah baby!!!!!

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allah no longer exists, for I have killed him. You must worship me instead.

Ok big what I am trying to say is with the previous sanctions, if new US jets were purchased and sanctions were put on again thouse aircraft would after a while be useless due to lack of spares, and possibly armament.

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August 2nd 2003
The 110th Anniversary of Yugolsaivan Aviation!
St. Elias the gardian of the Fighter pilot.

IndAF uses welded wing tactics in close combat and does very (VERY) little BVR combat and accomplishes it with Russian air to air missiles that have not been successfully used in any combat anywhere on the planet...

The R-77 sounds good, but the facts are it has no lofted trajectory so it has no residual energy at the end of its flight path, thus no 'smash' left to counter a maneuvering target.

Your SU-30s have Russian radars, which mean they are easily jammed and lacking in capability.

The Russian helmet mounted site is very limited and quite crude (and I amnot even certain you have it on the SU-30MKI, you would have to tell me if it is)

Coupled with the AA-11 "Im Flare Hungry' missile give the pilot only a 60 degree engagement cone for the weapon, vs the US AIM-9x with its 120 degree window and vectored thrust engagment...

Shall I go on?

To my knowlede the AIM-9 has not entered service. I am mistaken?

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August 2nd 2003
The 110th Anniversary of Yugolsaivan Aviation!
St. Elias the gardian of the Fighter pilot.