Zephyr Net

Sure Tank I will post my response here and email you... And I will say right now that Horfrog knows alot more about this then I do...

Ok ...

1) You have to use the modified Cache.M file (which is hacked with a list of shapes and their locations within the efault FA libs) and add it to your toolkit to gain access to the shape files by using the mission segment in your toolkit.. ther are tips on this on Cent's and Zephyr's sites...

2) You are using the wrong editor... I know what you see in yours and its not converted... You need to get a different editor... Plus you need a hex converter... (See the quote from Hotfrog below...)



Cent adding this to your manual will first require a written out instruction set... Perhaps Hotfrog can do it for you? Im aleady buried in FAF and FA-2

CAG out...

I can if you want to write it up for me hotfrog.

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Centurian

Ok guys that last shape that I posted was indeed more stable, but you can get CTD eventually...I have another one that should be even more stable and I will post it soon...
The stretched wing textures have to do with making the shape more stable. I suspect the CTDs are due to moving certain points needed to smooth the neck of the plane. Realize that by removing the canards alone from a SU35, you dont get a very reallistic looking SU27. So you have to move those points, but in the process some polygons get stretched and FA renderer doesnt like those when you look at them from some angles. So I moved those points a safe distant and then moved the wing roots to meet them. In the process some polys in the wings got stretched as well. I would say, no biggy, just take that in consideration when making new textures...

hotfrog

Now for all you guys that want to know the process of editing...First let me tell you the process isnt simple and a far cry from refined. The idea is to create a program that reads the shape, renders it in 3d, and allows you to move the points around. No new points or polygons can be added (at least until we figure out more). But with a large complex shape, you could in theory, create any shape. Well let me tell you that is the future, but right now the process is as down to the metal as it can get.

First I wrote a little console program that given a shape file outputs a .PLY file. PLY is a 3d file format used by some unitversities and the only reason I did this is because it's a simle text file. This part of the process it's not even perfect, like I said before, I have problems figuring out some polygons and in that case the program stops, gives a binary output and asks me to select the proper "polygon format".

After I get the PLY file I convert it to DFX and import it into 3D Studio. The program also gives me a log file that has the offset in the SH for each object found. The word object in the last sentence is used as in Points, Polygons, Normals, Meshes and the different structures described in my first post.

I edit the shape in 3D studio, so I can get a good look at what it would look like, noting all the changes. Then the log file tells me where all the changes in SH file should be done. Using an hex editor I make the changes, create a lib and test in FA.

Add water, rinse and repeat until you get stable...


hotfrog

Can you email me a detailed process?

Centurian@369thtfw.com

I'll put it in my FA Tips & Tricks Manual.

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Centurian

Hotfrog, did you know the ATF toolkit has a shape exporter that adjusts the shapes into DXF format? Would this speed your work and give you more flexibility?

Let me know, I have the ATF TK...

CAG out...

what version of 3D Studio do you use?

_________________
Fighting for justice with brains of steel

Let your anger be like the monkey which hides inside the piniata.

R3...

I didnt know ATF TK did that...It would help but I still need the log file from my program so I know where everything is...
Sorry guys but I'm not going to release my program until it's at an acceptable level, that's when it would show a 3D mesh on the screen and you just move the points around...In its current form it's just a research tool to figure out the SH file format. The SU27 shape was to prove the concept...


hotfrog

USNF97 had one too but i dont think it worked.

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Centurian

I'm unsure how appropriate my find is but..
http://web.axelero.hu/karpo/

A 3D Object convertor with 310 file formats including .PLY

Jimbo

THis is definately interesting Jimbo, I will dumb this over to the EGroup...

Hotfrog, its up to you whether to release your work or not. I fully support you in this, but please bear in mind, that when FA-2 Stage 2 comes out, it will not be using the SH format shapes any longer. It will have the new D3D graphics engine and be using shapes that are compatible with several of the other flight simulators out in the marketplace today. So if you take to long to release, then you stand the chance of even fewer people using your product and your techniques then if you release prior to FA-2 Stage 1, which still uses the default FA shapes...

CAG out...

Question...

If the plan is to go ahead with a new graphics engine why bother with FAs limited one now? Not sure if time management should be taken into consideration because why waste peoples time with shapes/graphics that will be replaced? Other then saying you took FA to its peak graphically I don't see much of a point while new games come out with top of the line eye candy that blows away anything were putting together for FA.

I dunno something to think about if you haven't already, I'm just throwing it out there.

Jimbo

Answer...

Several reasons really...

1) To have users something to fly that they have always requested throughout the lifetime of FA.... A version that has been upgraded to the maximum capability without changing any fo the default item types or weapons, unless it is adding new ones, not overwriting old ones.

This has been echoed strongly on my EGroup and in emails I have received over the course of my development time for FAF. So I want to give the users what they have asked for and do it in a way to make FA into all new experience...

This is echoed in other developments and other development teams, such as the F4UT team and Team Super Hornet, where they took the current version of the sim at the time fo their inception and updated it to it's maximum level (such as Super Pak 1 from F4UT and TSH's initial mod of JF-18 before incorporating new aircraft and items from JF-15) before moving on to even greater develoments...

This gives the simmers that love FA something to enjoy while the development of FA - 2 Stage 2 goes forward. That development will take the better part of a year with our current resources... so FA - 2 Stage 1 (Maximized default FA) and futher releases of FAF will keep them interested until the release of FA-2 Stage 2,3,4...

Plus it is specificially part of my agreement with my sponsor...

Now a question for you Jimbo,

Over the course of knowing you I have seen this same theme repeated in many of your messages... It seem you are you always looking for problems wherever you can. Now this is great for Beta tester and you have done some nice work for FAF, but I have noticed it carrying over to many of your other posts. You seem to be critical about many things and development ideas, even good things like reccomendations for FAF by users (who somtimes have enthusiastic, if not practial, ideas - but this input is much needed) or to Hotfrogs released work, - you have been negative over small things, such as the example below...



Just so you know, I duplicated your exact effects that you described in the message I took the quote from, but I did it with the default SU35B shape in FA. Any shape in FA can be unstable, its totally dependant on your own setup, ram amounts, video drivers, processor power, direct X version... many things...

I dont know, it just seems you like to rain on peoples parades and that stifles ideas and developments. Just my 2 cents...

CAG out...


[/code]

No, my intent is not to bring down anything at anytime so you're angle on me is wrong just so you know. To make it clear without arguing ignorantly, I think all this confusion is coming about because I'm somewhat of an idealist heh.

I'm extremely impressed by this new Sukoi shape but it was put here to test it so I did and gave my response, even frog said it will crash. However I don't feel the need to blow sunshine up the creator’s ass all the time either. I guess in what you could call one large "development team" that we have created with this open forum everyone is entitled to their own opinion and having my character questioned isn't necessary as everyone's own words on here can speak for themselves, some a lot more obvious than others lol.

But this is only a forum and the tone in which I’m typing or the reasoning behind it can never be crystal clear. I can see your confusion though CAG and you asked me a simple question – hence why I’m answering it and justifying what I said, which you felt I was raining on peoples parades.

My post about simply moving on to FA-2 is pretty vague and really wasn't meant to change anything I was just curious for the reasons why and you answered them, could have stopped there. Maybe if the VNFAWING site was complete these questions wouldn’t be required anymore? (hint hint lol – I’m just messing with you) HOWEVER the screenshot competition pics aren’t up yet? How am I suppose to respond with my distaste to the contest if I can’t see who was chosen for 1st and 2nd place lol I can’t wait, no one likes to lose especially to someone editing what was a screenshot into their own work with cutting and pasting, following the rules or not lol.

As Gump would say… and that’s all I got to say thaaat

So I’m out.

Jimbo