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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 17:43 pm 
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Quote:
since the company clearly would not be dumb enough to try and create a historically accurate simulation without a few veterans to help them.


:shock:

Never assume anything about the realism of a sim or technical input for development, especially regarding flight models!!!! :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 23:04 pm 
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Have you checked the SimHQ Forum archives for the Flight Model edits that were done in MiG Alley?

Seems they did a tremendous number of changes to the default FMs to make them more realeastic...

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 17:47 pm 
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Location: Columbia, SC
Checked that website, but could not find any useful information.

Toolkit drag numbers for the respective aircraft:

MiG:
Loaded:
30
6
29
29
29

Coffecients:
256
33

Sabre:
Loaded:
30
13
40
40
40

Coefficients:
256
46

What do you make of this?

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Air power rests at the apex of the first triad of victory, for it combines mobility, flexibility, and initiative. -- Colonel Corazon Santiago, Spartan Battle Manual


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 18:57 pm 
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Me? I make nothing of it, but then I dont do FM work...

However you can hope that Kap comes by and takes a look at this!

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 15:52 pm 
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Maybe increase the loaded drag for both aircraft. I recently read about how MiG-19PM pilots disliked the aircraft because the four AA-1 Alkali missiles were draggy and made the plane fly like a brick compared to a MiG-19 dayfighter. If four little missiles do that to a MiG-19, what do drop tanks do to a MiG-15? I'm not sure, just something to keep in mind.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 18:50 pm 
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Location: Columbia, SC
Tried swapping the drag numbers for both aircraft, and was very impressed with the results. The Saber is now owning like the MiG was. I'm going to try balancing them next.

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That's pronounced SPY - APPLE, and it stands for Sabre Pilot In A Past Life

Air power rests at the apex of the first triad of victory, for it combines mobility, flexibility, and initiative. -- Colonel Corazon Santiago, Spartan Battle Manual


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 01:37 am 
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Did I hear MY name?? :lol:

FMs are SO complicated in FA that it's not even funny! You can ask CAG about the fudgery I had to use just to get realistic AI cruise speeds and "Viking Departures"( but watching an AI F-15 Eagle do a verticle climb after take-off is worth it lol )

The drag coefficiants work in relation to thrust to weight ratios, so differences in one area affects the other. Your Saber is paying a much higher drag penalty in a turn than the MiG, compare your wing loading between the two and adjust the turn drag index cell accordingly.

If this is a MiG-15 remember that the 15 didn't have boosted controls and so would be harder to turn when fully loaded, so adjust your "Loaded" cells accordingly.

The A-4 model was a very baaaaad place to start, should have based both of them on the MiG and made the nessesary changes. Just using the max speed limit to restrict it will make it perform much more differently than a proper lope build. Each G envelope performance is modified by the next higher G, it gets complicated and I am lucky I have very strong hair roots or I would be bald. If you don't love spending endless hours in a low altitude turn to see where it finally settles out you will never have really good lopes.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 09:32 am 
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Thanks very much for the information. I will take everyone's suggestions under advisement. In any case, it will be a long time--probably years--before DOTJA is finally completed and released. In the mean time, I'll just keep playing with things until I get something I like.

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That's pronounced SPY - APPLE, and it stands for Sabre Pilot In A Past Life

Air power rests at the apex of the first triad of victory, for it combines mobility, flexibility, and initiative. -- Colonel Corazon Santiago, Spartan Battle Manual


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 23:07 pm 
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If it will take you that long to release then I can guarantee you will have many new shapes and skin sets for both your MiG-15s and F-86s...

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